Rumor: GT500 BASE MSRP is 67k

Discussion in 'Shelby GT500 Mustang' started by VRYALT3R3D, Apr 14, 2019.

  1. jake_zx2

    jake_zx2 Well-Known Member

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    Go back and reread where this started, and you'll see that the point you just made is the same point that he is making

    This started off as someone discounting the C8, saying that it's just a copy of a Ferrari. He countered by saying that all manufacturers draw inspiration from other great vehicles, just as Ford did with the Voodoo
     
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  2. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    #122 martinjlm, Apr 20, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
    I got that and agreed with most of it. The only difference I was trying to point out is that by no means is Voodoo derived from Ferrari’s 458 engine. It was benchmarked, no doubt, but was not a real factor in determining what the Voodoo would be. Since Ford had already decided they were going FPC, it only made sense that they would acquire the best FPC applications on the market, but they were already on the path by the time they could acquire a 458. I only point out the C8 as an example of how benchmarking does not equal copying.
     
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  3. Tomster

    Tomster Beware of idiots

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    Actually Jamal Hameedi stated in the Jay Lenno GT350 youtube video that Ford bought, took apart, and engineered the voodoo after the Ferrari Italia 458. Watch the whole thing. It's at the part where the engine is discussed in Jays garage.

     
  4. Lacquer

    Lacquer Member

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    He said they were benchmarking it after it was developed and the GT 350 engine was 13 pounds lighter.
     
  5. Tomster

    Tomster Beware of idiots

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    Not to bicker, but they tore it apart (disassembled it). Why would they do that if they were just benchmarking it?

    They tore it apart, picked up a few good ideas, and incorporated it into the voodoo and saved 13 pounds is what I got from that.
     
  6. Darkane

    Darkane Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I agree.

    There’s no shame in benchmarking and drawing inspiration from the best.

    FPC = Ferrari. Simple.

    Every other manufacturer has a Porsche when designing and building a new performance variant. It was even seen with the ZL1, and GT500.
     
  7. Eritas

    Eritas Well-Known Member

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    McLaren also has a FPC, and so was the Lotus Esprit. It's not like they were surprised the 458 had a FPC (when pretty much all of their V8s are) and decided to out one in the GT350. Heck the GT350 has a unique "flat" crank design that is different from all the FPCs found in Ferrari, McLaren, and 4cyl engines (up, down, up, down - vs . - up, down, down, up).
     
  8. Dominator961

    Dominator961 Banned

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    Kids!
    Today in school we’re going to learn how to follow along and pay attention to what others say.

    Step 1) Read from the beginning.
    Step 2) Don’t read the last post and comment before Step 1.
    Step 3) Don’t argue facts.
     
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  9. Tomster

    Tomster Beware of idiots

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    I think later on, I am going to get the AG R out of the garage and go for a spin. What are you going to do today? :)

    Face it, there is nothing going on around here. People are bored.
     
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  10. Dominator961

    Dominator961 Banned

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    I agree.
    But it’s funny how people read the last 1-2 comments and post on it without knowing the whole conversation from the start.

    Enjoy your ride!
    We’re getting 1” of rain here and no end in site today.
    Happy Easter.
     
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  11. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    Because that is exactly what benchmarking is. When I was at GM we had a room at Powertrain HQ that contained disassembled engines and transmissions from practically every competitor. Part of my job was to tell the benchmarking guys which vehicles to buy and what the powertrain configuration should be. Benchmarking is done to identify where everybody stands with regards to a number of issues... Mass, cylinder spacing, wall thickness, fastening methods, manufacturing methods et cetera. It was (is...it’s still there even though I am not) a physical library of sorts. All the parts are made available for anybody with proper clearance to come in, inspect the parts, read the write ups.
     
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  12. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    He said they bought, took apart, and benchmarked the Ferrari Italia 458 engine. He did not say that they engineered Voodoo based on it. I’d bet mortgages that the Ferrari engine was not the only engine they bought to benchmark. Anybody developing a flat plane crank engine would be out off their mind NOT to benchmark a Ferrari flat plane. It doesn’t mean they copy it or design from it. It’s called benchmarking because it is the process of figuring out where the best competition is, then using your own engineering and tech to exceed it.
     
  13. FastCarFanBoy

    FastCarFanBoy Well-Known Member

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    You are correct, they make it sound like Ford's engineers were incapable of building a flat plane crank engine without studying the F136 architecture.
     
  14. Tomster

    Tomster Beware of idiots

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    Wow, it really is slow around here lately.....
     
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  15. Dominator961

    Dominator961 Banned

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    Everyone is Easter egg hunting for the latest fake news.
     
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  16. Tomster

    Tomster Beware of idiots

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    Or a knee jerk response to something unrelated to this thread via a voodoo argument.

    Up early and back to the grind tomorrow. I hope everyone had a nice holiday. Let's hope there is some news soon on the 500.
     
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  17. nametoshowothers

    nametoshowothers Well-Known Member

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    Fully agree. Nobody needs to take apart a ferrari engine to build an engine period. All skills exist in house.

    Why they take it apart is to validate design premises and to understand tolerances.

    Besides the voodoo has different firing order, different intake and exhaust..... etc.
     
  18. Tomster

    Tomster Beware of idiots

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    And there was reason for that too. Lack of real estate under the hood IIRC. So back to the voodoo argument in the GT500 thread...... slow times
     
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  19. Epiphany

    Epiphany Well-Known Member

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    I did an internship at Harrison Radiator in college in ~1987. I remember walking through a number of garages where GM engineers were disassembling/assembling various non-GM cars and trucks. I remember telling the guy I was under that I felt like GM was cheating. He laughed and said that everyone reverse engineers, not just GM. It was also my introduction to the UAW. The workers in the plant seemed like the laziest group of people I had ever seen, and this was a huge radiator manufacturing facility.
     
  20. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    Lockport or Buffalo? I high school co-oped out of the Buffalo plant before I went to GMI. Visited Lockport a couple times. Then when I went to GMI and co-oped out of Buick in Flint, the Buick HQ and the Harrison Radiator HQ in Lockport were carbon copies of each other.
     
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