Rotors&Pads vs Brembo upgrade

[Grafanton]

I do not have my old calipers. I had to return them for a core charge.
I changed the front pads at least 4 times over the life of the car, and there was always some difference in the inside to outside pad wear. Nothing that I found alarming, call it 10%-20% difference. I'm pretty sure that's the case with all disc brake systems, although after my last check of the 6 piston Brembos, the 6 piston seem to have more consistent wear than the 4 pistons ever did.

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[GEBRONI]

I do not have my old calipers. I had to return them for a core charge.
I changed the front pads at least 4 times over the life of the car, and there was always some difference in the inside to outside pad wear. Nothing that I found alarming, call it 10%-20% difference. I'm pretty sure that's the case with all disc brake systems, although after my last check of the 6 piston Brembos, the 6 piston seem to have more consistent wear than the 4 pistons ever did.

Cool, will keep an eye on it when I need new pads next time; thank you!

 

[bnightstar]

They were warned? What’s the risk of using the base master cylinder?

not enough brake pressure resulting in less then optimal brake performance.

 

[D K]

Thats a ginormous assumption and almost certainly incorrect.

The calipers all have similar piston area, so a change in masters

 

[D K]

Would love to knot the piston sizes on all 3..

I get what you're saying about perceived performance, but being a different part/part number means very little.

Ford has 3 different part numbers for the PP Brembo calipers. One back in 2015, then 2018 for a different number with the part being 100% the same, then 2018 Bullit got yet another part number with the part being 100% the same except for red paint.

Same exact part, 3 different part numbers from Ford.

 

[D K]

Brake pedal will end up feeling mushy and vague.

been there.
done that.

They were warned? What’s the risk of using the base master cylinder?

 

[EFI]

Brake pedal will end up feeling mushy and vague.

been there.
done that.

That is not so much a symptom of an undersized master, more so a symptom of air in the lines

 

[TeeLew]

Thats a ginormous assumption and almost certainly incorrect.

This was the response.

"It absolutely is. I can’t recall the difference in piston diameter when I swapped my base master to PP, but it was visually obvious and I think around 1MM larger OD. Vorshlag measured and wrote it up I believe."


So, I was right. Suck it.

 

[shogun32]

I put 6-pots on my EB/PP (aka GT) with no changes except Steeda braided lines. Pedal feel was quite good and no different than my GT/PP.

If memory serves the GT350 master is the same size as the standard GT one. The only possible problem is if you have a 2-pot Ecoboost/V6 and re-use that Master with the 6-pots.

 

[D K]

Huh???

I was commenting on calipers and you quoted something to do with a master cylinder??

This was the response.

"It absolutely is. I can’t recall the difference in piston diameter when I swapped my base master to PP, but it was visually obvious and I think around 1MM larger OD. Vorshlag measured and wrote it up I believe."


So, I was right. Suck it.

 

[TeeLew]

Huh???

I was commenting on calipers and you quoted something to do with a master cylinder??

They work together. All the calipers, whether 4 or 6 piston, have roughly the same piston area. Because of this, the hydraulic ratio and pedal effort is going to be much more influenced by a change in master than caliper.

I wasn't talking out my ass.

 

[Norm Peterson]

not enough brake pressure resulting in less then optimal brake performance.

Other way around, actually. Smaller M/C pistons develop higher line pressure at any given pedal piston force, because less piston area means higher psi in the fluid on the other side of the piston.

Where you sacrifice with the smaller master cylinder piston is in pedal travel. Takes a longer stroke to move the same amount of fluid, which has to happen in order to take up the running clearances between the pads and the rotors and cover for things like line expansion under pressure and caliper flexing.


Norm

 

[nbjeeptj]

I upgraded mine to 6 pot brembos from the base model 4 pot ones, the brake pedal feels about the same but it does travel farther to get to full lock up. Ive done about 20 track days since making this chage, so now I am used to it the way it is and dont think I would change to the PP one even if mine fails.

 

[GEBRONI]

Other way around, actually. Smaller M/C pistons develop higher line pressure at any given pedal piston force, because less piston area means higher psi in the fluid on the other side of the piston.

Where you sacrifice with the smaller master cylinder piston is in pedal travel. Takes a longer stroke to move the same amount of fluid, which has to happen in order to take up the running clearances between the pads and the rotors and cover for things like line expansion under pressure and caliper flexing.


Norm

The PP rear brakes have thicker rotor and pads, perhaps that also contributes to the pedal feel... I looked at the image of non-pp and pp master cylinder; honestly I cannot see a drastic difference... I do have more travel before brake feel but it really isn't drastic by all means... if this upgrade kit I purchased that is made by Ford Performance would pose any failure possibilities; I would think they have the need to upgrade master cylinder as a requirement or even mention it specifically if you track the car... at least that much because the community here that do track their cars agree a pp master cylinder made a huge difference for them...

 

[TeeLew]

There is not a drastic difference. It's subtle. Measure with calipers and it will be apparent.

Master cylinder sizing is largely a matter of driver preference, not system function.

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