Replacing 12 inch sub with two 10 inch subs at basically the same power level. What to expect?

[mindys]

Hello all,

I got a question: I have a 2015 Mustang GT with the 9 speaker system. The head unit is replaced with a Sync 3 unit. I recently installed a sub and amp that I got for free from a buddy:

Amp: Kenwood KAC-7202 (2-channel, 150W @ 4 ohms/channel, 230W @ 2 ohms/channel, or 460W @ 4 ohms/bridged)

Sub: 12" Kicker 03CVR124 (4 ohm DVC, 400W) - Wired in series at 8 ohms

Box: Sealed, approx. volume 1.3 cu.ft. no leaks

Tapped into rear speakers using an LC2i (Bass threshold maximized), then to amp, then to sub. I oscoped the signal before the LC2i, after the LC2i and after the amp and absolutely no clipping at max volume (30). Have the gain/input sensitivity set so that sub is receiving 400W at max volume. Amp’s LPF is set to about 100 Hz right now. I believe it is a 24 dB/ octave filter.

While I hear the bass nicely, I don't really feel much of it, and also the box takes up space inefficiently in the trunk. I have been thinking of getting a Zenclosure rear fire box for two 10" subs that would be 4 ohm DVC and 300W RMS. I would wire each sub in parallel to have a 2 ohm impedance and then connect them to each channel on the amp that I have (so it would be 230W @ 2 ohms for each sub). My question is would these make me "feel" the bass more than the setup that I have now? I calculated that running the subs at a lower impedance would mean more current through the voice coils, so it should be more excursion on the cone plus more surface area to move the air. I just do not want to spend the money because I am not sure what this would mean in the real world. Anyone with some experience mind chiming in? Thank you!

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[StangTime]

First question for your question is did you use Forscan to remove the factory EQ settings?
Second, I would try re-wiring the sub you have because an 8 ohm load is probably delivering less than 120W total. Connect each voice coil to it's own amplifier channel. That way you will have 300W total for the sub (150W for each voice coil). Your sub should be able to pound a bit harder after these two changes.

Forgot to ask... which way is your sub box oriented? Facing rear seats or facing rear of the car? Did you try a polarity reversal on the sub? Sometimes the phase needs to be flipped around. Do you feel more bass with the seats down? LPF is about right.

 

[mindys]

First question for your question is did you use Forscan to remove the factory EQ settings?
Second, I would try re-wiring the sub you have because an 8 ohm load is probably delivering less than 120W total. Connect each voice coil to it's own amplifier channel. That way you will have 300W total for the sub (150W for each voice coil). Your sub should be able to pound a bit harder after these two changes.

Forgot to ask... which way is your sub box oriented? Facing rear seats or facing rear of the car? Did you try a polarity reversal on the sub? Sometimes the phase needs to be flipped around. Do you feel more bass with the seats down? LPF is about right.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, you are the second person to say that my amp is not outputting what I think it is, and I have done some research and understand now. At best the amp is putting out 230W to the sub, no? Since at 4 ohms it can do 460W, at 8 ohms it would do 230W (if it was an ideal amp). It may be putting out less than that.

I did not remove the factory EQ because I do not want to blow the stock speakers just yet . That's the plan when I get new speakers for the car.

Sadly, I do not want to put in another hole into the sub to be able to hook up the voice coils to separate channels. Also don't know what would happen with balance control since each coil would be hooked up to a different channel.

Box is oriented so that the sub is pointing towards to the rear of the box. Box back is against the back seats. I actually did mess with polarity and I have it hooked up the way it sounded better. I have not tried seats down yet. Will give a go on the drive home.

 

[pike1346]

Hello all,

I got a question: I have a 2015 Mustang GT with the 9 speaker system. The head unit is replaced with a Sync 3 unit. I recently installed a sub and amp that I got for free from a buddy:

Amp: Kenwood KAC-7202 (2-channel, 150W @ 4 ohms/channel, 230W @ 2 ohms/channel, or 460W @ 4 ohms/bridged)

Sub: 12" Kicker 03CVR124 (4 ohm DVC, 400W) - Wired in series at 8 ohms

Box: Sealed, approx. volume 1.3 cu.ft. no leaks

Tapped into rear speakers using an LC2i (Bass threshold maximized), then to amp, then to sub. I oscoped the signal before the LC2i, after the LC2i and after the amp and absolutely no clipping at max volume (30). Have the gain/input sensitivity set so that sub is receiving 400W at max volume. Amp’s LPF is set to about 100 Hz right now. I believe it is a 24 dB/ octave filter.

While I hear the bass nicely, I don't really feel much of it, and also the box takes up space inefficiently in the trunk. I have been thinking of getting a Zenclosure rear fire box for two 10" subs that would be 4 ohm DVC and 300W RMS. I would wire each sub in parallel to have a 2 ohm impedance and then connect them to each channel on the amp that I have (so it would be 230W @ 2 ohms for each sub). My question is would these make me "feel" the bass more than the setup that I have now? I calculated that running the subs at a lower impedance would mean more current through the voice coils, so it should be more excursion on the cone plus more surface area to move the air. I just do not want to spend the money because I am not sure what this would mean in the real world. Anyone with some experience mind chiming in? Thank you!

Personally, i would never buy a 10 inch sub. Not for my house and not for my car. 12's hit so much better than a 10. The difference is to much for me.
Buy the Punch P300 12 inch sub. That is what i put in my car and love it. That is the only upgrade I have done to the 9 speaker shaker system, and man, i am very happy i did it. I bought it for $200 on eBay. I was a great purchase
I hope you get a 12, cause I have a felling you will be disappointed with the 10.
https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-P300-12-Subwoofer-Enclosure/dp/B007AQ2W6W

 

[mindys]

Personally, i would never buy a 10 inch sub. Not for my house and not for my car. 12's hit so much better than a 10. The difference is to much for me.
Buy the Punch P300 12 inch sub. That is what i put in my car and love it. That is the only upgrade I have done to the 9 speaker shaker system, and man, i am very happy i did it. I bought it for $200 on eBay. I was a great purchase
I hope you get a 12, cause I have a felling you will be disappointed with the 10.
https://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-P300-12-Subwoofer-Enclosure/dp/B007AQ2W6W

Looks like a viable option. I was actually thinking of replacing the single 12 with two 10s.

 

[StangTime]

Amp: Kenwood KAC-7202 (2-channel, 150W @ 4 ohms/channel, 230W @ 2 ohms/channel, or 460W @ 4 ohms/bridged)

Sub: 12" Kicker 03CVR124 (4 ohm DVC, 400W) - Wired in series at 8 ohms

At best the amp is putting out 230W to the sub, no? Since at 4 ohms it can do 460W, at 8 ohms it would do 230W (if it was an ideal amp). It may be putting out less than that.

I did not remove the factory EQ because I do not want to blow the stock speakers just yet . That's the plan when I get new speakers for the car.

You're correct. You have about 230W into a single 8 ohm load bridged. For some reason I thought you were running it on one channel. Oops.

Without removing the factory EQ the rear channels are not getting the full audio spectrum. The rears have a high-pass filter applied to them with almost no low frequency content.
If you remove the factory EQ you will not blow your factory speakers but you will have to watch for signs of distortion at higher volumes. Basically, if it sounds bad to your ears, it's bad for the speakers. I understand the reason for not wanting to open the box and re-wire just to add 70W. You would also need to make sure your amp was providing mono into both channels. Not something all amps can do. Try the EQ trick if you can.

 

[pike1346]

Looks like a viable option. I was actually thinking of replacing the single 12 with two 10s.

ahh, two tens may be something to go with. I thought you doing one speaker. Two tens should work fine.

 

[pike1346]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, you are the second person to say that my amp is not outputting what I think it is, and I have done some research and understand now. At best the amp is putting out 230W to the sub, no? Since at 4 ohms it can do 460W, at 8 ohms it would do 230W (if it was an ideal amp). It may be putting out less than that.

I did not remove the factory EQ because I do not want to blow the stock speakers just yet . That's the plan when I get new speakers for the car.

Sadly, I do not want to put in another hole into the sub to be able to hook up the voice coils to separate channels. Also don't know what would happen with balance control since each coil would be hooked up to a different channel.

Box is oriented so that the sub is pointing towards to the rear of the box. Box back is against the back seats. I actually did mess with polarity and I have it hooked up the way it sounded better. I have not tried seats down yet. Will give a go on the drive home.

Seats down makes a shitton of a difference. I just leave the passenger side down at all times

 

[mindys]

You're correct. You have about 230W into a single 8 ohm load bridged. For some reason I thought you were running it on one channel. Oops.

Without removing the factory EQ the rear channels are not getting the full audio spectrum. The rears have a high-pass filter applied to them with almost no low frequency content.
If you remove the factory EQ you will not blow your factory speakers but you will have to watch for signs of distortion at higher volumes. Basically, if it sounds bad to your ears, it's bad for the speakers. I understand the reason for not wanting to open the box and re-wire just to add 70W. You would also need to make sure your amp was providing mono into both channels. Not something all amps can do. Try the EQ trick if you can.

I have an LC2i handling the signal from the rear speakers before it goes into the amp. That should compensate for that no?

 

[mindys]

Reprogrammed my ACM and definitely sounds better. I think I will be going down the route of getting two 10s cause I do prefer tighter and punchier bass than boomy bass.

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