Repairing the Ceramic Coating on the Carbon Wheels

[Wildcardfox]

Almost anyone who’s driven on the carbon wheels has faced the dreaded rock 🪨 damage that can quickly turn a beautiful wheel into a scarred eye sore. Not only is it unsightly but the protective thermal layer that shields the carbon fiber from transitioning back to gel state if temperatures ever reached high enough is gone.

My first rock damaged happened around 6000 miles. I bought two spare wheels that needed repair. I had my friends at Wasp Automotive and Tin Works in Oak Hills repair the paint on the wheels and then I sent the spare front up to Spyder Composites to have the ceramic coating redone.

(pictures of my spare front and spare rear being repainted before the spare front

My plan was to swap out one of my original wheels whenever I got more rock 🪨 damage. I would then send the wheel in need of repair back to Spyder and continue on.

My plan seemed sound but I never sent my original wheel which a rock 🪨 ripped a large rip in the ceramic that encompassed 3/4 of the barrel back to Spyder and then I had to replace my front Cup 2 Tires at 16000 miles, I now had three wheels with ceramic damage. The spare wheel that had already been repaired had rock scar in its cermaic finish, and my remaining original had lost of rock strikes and one small ripon the perimeter.

The frequency of rock damage—within every 6000 miles, made me decide that I needed to try to find a coating repair solution. Although Spyder offers their repair, the repair is a smooth finish that is dissimilar to the OE Ceramic coating that has a rough, gritty feel. Although it’s fine, I preferred a OE texture.

Being that this is a coating applied to carbon fiber, I decided to use my composites expertise and try to create a solution.

I spoke to some of my chemist suppliers and found a process for repair that gives 1700C resistance, uses Ceramic to repair to the damaged ceramic, and the final finish gives the rough OE appearance

Here is one of my front wheels, this is minor damage in my opinion, but if you look closely at the ceramic there are lots of rock strikes that have removed small bits of the ceramic coating. Then a small rock tear near the edge of the coating.

I don’t have a picture of the large tear on the other original wheel but here’s a picture of a test repair on the rip and you can tell by the width and length of the test repair to have an idea of how large it was.

So anyways, after doing a few tests, I figured out the process and used the material to repair.

Sprayed on here’s the finished repair

And on the vehicle (slightly dirty wheels because haven’t washed the car since getting back

The repair and recoat has that OE gritty feel and after drying is extremely hard and durable as it’s again a ceramic based coating.

Repair done, I’m very happy with the results. I need to do the other two wheels which I used as testers as I did trial and error to learn the process.

I’m probably going to teach this procedure to Tin Works in Oak Hills since they’ve worked previously on repainting a few carbon wheels for customers so they can offer a ceramic repair.

With many people having carbon wheels, we’re going to need multiple avenues for repair.

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[svttim]

Is this the material that they use on the space shuttle?

 

[Wildcardfox]

Is this the material that they use on the space shuttle?

Yah the chemist found the NASA material and included it in the formulation.

 

[THX 138]

I thought I read that the ceramic coating basically had to be "baked on" somehow. I could be mistaken, though.

 

[Wildcardfox]

I thought I read that the ceramic coating basically had to be "baked on" somehow. I could be mistaken, though.

The ceramic is sprayed on first and then baked or elevated to the prescribed temperature to make sure the coating if fully cured. The procedure has elevated temperature as a curing method after the ceramic is applied onto the repaired wheel. OE is supposedly light arc, but a repair is meant to replace or the ceramic coating with ceramic which repair does—other than just training with a high temp coating.

 

[Epiphany]

What are the maximum temperatures you are using when baking the wheels?

 

[Wildcardfox]

What are the maximum temperatures you are using when baking the wheels?

The formulation that we are using is 100C-180C for a number of hours which completes the curing process.

I think one thing that needs to be considered, since I’ve gotten two questions about post cure baking, when you’re talking about baking or adding post heat is that the underlying material is not metal as in an exhaust manifold, it’s a Composites— a mix of fabric and epoxy.

If this was an purely manufacturing situation we would know the specifications of that epoxy. With that being a mystery, then you need to keep whatever post cure of any new material in this case to a low point, so as to not bring the wheel to temperature where it will transition from a solid back to a gel state.

The formulation that we came up with allows alow heat threshold that is below most epoxy resin’s temperature range as to not damage the wheel during a repair.

hope that answers the baking question.

 

[Tomster]

I seem to recall Harold a while back had issues with his R wheels and had the same solution. I recall it was a readily obtainable material on the open market, but it wasnt the same as oem plasma application.

I'd be interested in knowing more about it, but if it's not oem equivalent, then its just another coating like spyder does. I was under the impression that the oem coating cannot be reproduced after the fact.

I was actually contemplating this subject recently. There was a 500 front wheel with a trashed ceramic heat shield that sold recently. For light duty street use/cars&coffee, a repair most certainly would be acceptable. For heavy track use? I don't think so.

The problem is that these wheels cost a boat load to buy. Most were not able to get the warranty. I know from personal experience that ford will not cover road Hazzard for wheel replacement.

This leaves people with only 2 options..... repair or replacement.

Maybe this is a viable option, depending on the application, maybe it isn't.

 

[Wildcardfox]

I seem to recall Harold a while back had issues with his R wheels and had the same solution. I recall it was a readily obtainable material on the open market, but it wasnt the same as oem plasma application.

I'd be interested in knowing more about it, but if it's not oem equivalent, then its just another coating like spyder does. I was under the impression that the oem coating cannot be reproduced after the fact.

I was actually contemplating this subject recently. There was a 500 front wheel with a trashed ceramic heat shield that sold recently. For light duty street use/cars&coffee, a repair most certainly would be acceptable. For heavy track use? I don't think so. One of my wheels had the oem ceramic delaminate after heavy track use/heat exposure. Let's just say that wheel was replaced and I have a brand new wheel.

The problem is that these wheels cost a boat load to buy. Most were not able to get the warranty. I know from personal experience that ford will not cover road Hazzard for wheel replacement.

This leaves people with only 2 options..... repair or replacement.

Maybe this is a viable option, depending on the application, maybe it isn't.

Hi Tomster,


Not sure who Harold is but what I’m using isn’t an off-the-shelf material that is wiped on. My background as mentioned above is as a composites expert—it’s one of the many hats that I wear. Being that this is right up my alley, it was only a matter of time before I delved into figuring out a fix that offered me something that the Spyder Composites repair didn’t. When I got my wheel back from Frank, the repair was less than what I was expecting. Yes, would it prevent the carbon from transitioning to a gel state? Yes, but did it give me an OEM feel of the textured rough surface? No. It was smooth, He had sanded down the ceramic layer and wiped it on a high-temperature coating.

When I decided to branch out on this I approached the chemical company and the chemist for who I buy my epoxy formulations for my company. I told them what I needed and the issue: I needed a material that could repair a ceramic coating that is applied to a carbon wheel, I need it to not just be a high-temperature coating, but be an actual ceramic-based coating, that could produce a gritty surface similar to the stock wheel. We examined the coating on the OE wheel and after some time, they gave me a sample of what they came up with. I then trial-tested repair procedures and applications. They don’t sell to the public as they only sell to companies in the composites industry.

With the material in hand, I worked on different ways to first repair gouges and tears, and the best way to then blend in the ceramic coating so the wheel’s barrel does not show the patch/repaired area—after the initial repair, the entire coated area is resprayed with the coating.

So not an off-the-shelf repair as you discussed that Harold is using.

Now as for how the wheels initially get their coating at the factory, just because the original coating uses a unique manufacturing method, that does not mean that it cannot be repaired or that a repair is less than sufficient. An apology is when Frank, at Spyder, is repairing carbon fiber on wheels or bicycles, his repair is not the same process that was used when it was originally constructed—same as when Lamborghini sends out their “Flying Doctors” who specialize in fixing damage to the carbon monocoque chassis of damaged vehicles. We don’t have to use the exact same process to make a good repair that meets or exceeds the mechanical and operational requirements of a part. I'm also pretty sure the process for how the wheels get their ceramic coating is proprietary.

What we require, for this application, is a high temp surface that will protect against the temperature to prevent the epoxy from exceeding its heat rating or HDT (Heat Deflection Temperature) as to prevent the epoxy from transitioning back to a gel state which would cause a wheel failure. This coating, once cured, can withstand temperatures up to 1700C or 3092F. That’s adequate and more than sufficient to protect against temperature on track, under extreme conditions, and can give the same protection, if not more, than the stock. So I would see those facts as a sufficient repair.

It’s hard too, but as we’ve seen the original coating, although also hard is susceptible to damage from rocks and other hard debris. I estimate a person may experience a rock strike to the ceramic coating once every 6000 miles. So constant repair of the coating is needed as new rock damage accrues.

One difference that I can say is that when working with my wheel that Spyder had repaired the ceramic coating, it contained no ceramic material—I know this because I was able to wipe their coating off with acetone. Ceramic won’t wipe off just with acetone, a binder or paint would have, but there would have been something leftover.

So what were the project goals:

*Learn a method of repairing the carbon wheel’s ceramic coating after rock damage.

*Produce a material that is ceramic based and that can reproduce the look feel and protection of the OE coating

*Test those procedures and develop the process for the repair and then report back.


With three front wheels, I was able to test material and figure out methods, and the benefit as I mentioned in my original is that now there are two options for repair. I’m happy to have helped in the development, but it gets passed off to Tin Works, which the company wants to use as their venue for their coating.

As for warranties, Ford wouldn’t cover rock damage as we have discussed before as damage from a foreign object is not a manufacturer defect (putting on my legal hat), but a warranty is not a shield either—a warranty is not forever, and when it ends, rock damage will still occur. Now, if a person gets a scratch on their car, they don’t throw the car out. They can get it fixed. Damage to the ceramic coating is not a failure of the carbon wheel’s integrity, it’s a coating and that damage to its heat shield can be repaired.

What does it offer people? another option, and for some who want a repair that replicates the appearance and texture of the OE coating while also meeting the heat deflection requirements, then this is a very good option.

 

[melown]

The wheel will only fail when the brake temps get to the point of failure. 100 degree day and killing your brakes like an endurance race to the point of supreme fade might do it. Has anyone heard of a failure of the carbon fiber wheel due to heat because of a scrape in the coating? I've got a scrape or two on each front wheel. Not planning on fixing those any time soon as I enjoy driving my car on roads where rocks occur. Maybe one day, but not any time soon. 8500 miles and climbing on the CF wheels and chassis.

 

[Wildcardfox]

The wheel will only fail when the brake temps get to the point of failure. 100 degree day and killing your brakes like an endurance race to the point of supreme fade might do it. Has anyone heard of a failure of the carbon fiber wheel due to heat because of a scrape in the coating? I've got a scrape or two on each front wheel. Not planning on fixing those any time soon as I enjoy driving my car on roads where rocks occur. Maybe one day, but not any time soon. 8500 miles and climbing on the CF wheels and chassis.

I remember when Billy Johnson talked about testing the carbon wheels with the brake package and that the coating was an added measure of insurance. I remember he said that the temperature never reached the point where a material failure would occur, as that point was where the brakes actually failed and exploded which exceeeded the force that was beyond the normal operating window of the brakes—I.e. no one will ever reach. So fixing the damage is partly for aesthetic reasons. If you have a big enough tear it’s an eye sore. My car was featured on a tv show recently and the tear was in the wheel, kinda sucks when they’re focusing the camera down on the famous carbon wheels which ceramic coating. The OE aesthetic is the reason for my instance on having a resulting finish that is akin to the stock coating. But appearance is one thing, it also has to perform. Since the coating is on there, we have to put it back on there if we want to fix the damage.

Glad to see your driving with the carbon with 8000 miles. I’m 17000 on them and I love driving with the carbon wheels.

 

[Tomster]

Hi Tomster,


Not sure who Harold is but what I’m using isn’t an off-the-shelf material that is wiped on. My background as mentioned above is as a composites expert—it’s one of the many hats that I wear. Being that this is right up my alley, it was only a matter of time before I delved into figuring out a fix that offered me something that the Spyder Composites repair didn’t. When I got my wheel back from Frank, the repair was less than what I was expecting. Yes, would it prevent the carbon from transitioning to a gel state? Yes, but did it give me an OEM feel of the textured rough surface? No. It was smooth, He had sanded down the ceramic layer and wiped it on a high-temperature coating.

When I decided to branch out on this I approached the chemical company and the chemist for who I buy my epoxy formulations for my company. I told them what I needed and the issue: I needed a material that could repair a ceramic coating that is applied to a carbon wheel, I need it to not just be a high-temperature coating, but be an actual ceramic-based coating, that could produce a gritty surface similar to the stock wheel. We examined the coating on the OE wheel and after some time, they gave me a sample of what they came up with. I then trial-tested repair procedures and applications. They don’t sell to the public as they only sell to companies in the composites industry.

With the material in hand, I worked on different ways to first repair gouges and tears, and the best way to then blend in the ceramic coating so the wheel’s barrel does not show the patch/repaired area—after the initial repair, the entire coated area is resprayed with the coating.

So not an off-the-shelf repair as you discussed that Harold is using.

Now as for how the wheels initially get their coating at the factory, just because the original coating uses a unique manufacturing method, that does not mean that it cannot be repaired or that a repair is less than sufficient. An apology is when Frank, at Spyder, is repairing carbon fiber on wheels or bicycles, his repair is not the same process that was used when it was originally constructed—same as when Lamborghini sends out their “Flying Doctors” who specialize in fixing damage to the carbon monocoque chassis of damaged vehicles. We don’t have to use the exact same process to make a good repair that meets or exceeds the mechanical and operational requirements of a part. I'm also pretty sure the process for how the wheels get their ceramic coating is proprietary.

What we require, for this application, is a high temp surface that will protect against the temperature to prevent the epoxy from exceeding its heat rating or HDT (Heat Deflection Temperature) as to prevent the epoxy from transitioning back to a gel state which would cause a wheel failure. This coating, once cured, can withstand temperatures up to 1700C or 3092F. That’s adequate and more than sufficient to protect against temperature on track, under extreme conditions, and can give the same protection, if not more, than the stock. So I would see those facts as a sufficient repair.

It’s hard too, but as we’ve seen the original coating, although also hard is susceptible to damage from rocks and other hard debris. I estimate a person may experience a rock strike to the ceramic coating once every 6000 miles. So constant repair of the coating is needed as new rock damage accrues.

One difference that I can say is that when working with my wheel that Spyder had repaired the ceramic coating, it contained no ceramic material—I know this because I was able to wipe their coating off with acetone. Ceramic won’t wipe off just with acetone, a binder or paint would have, but there would have been something leftover.

So what were the project goals:

*Learn a method of repairing the carbon wheel’s ceramic coating after rock damage.

*Produce a material that is ceramic based and that can reproduce the look feel and protection of the OE coating

*Test those procedures and develop the process for the repair and then report back.


With three front wheels, I was able to test material and figure out methods, and the benefit as I mentioned in my original is that now there are two options for repair. I’m happy to have helped in the development, but it gets passed off to Tin Works, which the company wants to use as their venue for their coating.

As for warranties, Ford wouldn’t cover rock damage as we have discussed before as damage from a foreign object is not a manufacturer defect (putting on my legal hat), but a warranty is not a shield either—a warranty is not forever, and when it ends, rock damage will still occur. Now, if a person gets a scratch on their car, they don’t throw the car out. They can get it fixed. Damage to the ceramic coating is not a failure of the carbon wheel’s integrity, it’s a coating and that damage to its heat shield can be repaired.

What does it offer people? another option, and for some who want a repair that replicates the appearance and texture of the OE coating while also meeting the heat deflection requirements, then this is a very good option.

Thats all great and appreciated. Instead of passing all of this technology off to a company that we will essentially be stuck with using, why not pass along the specifics so that we as a community can choose to send it out or make our own repairs?

Maybe the solution is to have a beater set of front wheels in lieu of having to shell out for the repair process.

I have three extra 500 fronts that I will use as street/track beaters that were purchased on eBay for cheap. Ther ceramic is perfectly intact and the cost for them i think will be cheaper than sending a wheel off in similar style to spyder composites or any other repair facility.

Let's cut to the chase, how much would it cost to recoat a wheel? One wheel I bought that needed some epoxy repair was had for $500. That came with a new front tire. My point is that repai, if costly, isn't always the best option.

 

[Tomster]

Harold (aka @Zitrosounds) had a base R that suffered damage to his ceramic coat. He too was a composites expert who decided to recoat his inner barrels. If memory serves me correctly, he wound up removing the ceramic that wasn't damaged and resprayed the entire inner barrels. His method also specified a heated curing time.

I'll look to see if I can find the thread. It goes back a long way, but it specify what materials he used. The thrad was back in '17 I believe.

 

[Tomster]

I found it.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...l-ceramic-coating-repair.102914/#post-2233816

The material is VHT flamencoat. It is a ceramic coating that requires heat to cure and protects at up to 2000F.

Harolds article stated that he used some specialized curing tool to complete the process.

https://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-flameproof-coating

 

[Wildcardfox]

I found it.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...l-ceramic-coating-repair.102914/#post-2233816

The material is VHT flamencoat. It is a ceramic coating that requires heat to cure and protects at up to 2000F.

Harolds article stated that he used some specialized curing tool to complete the process.

https://www.vhtpaint.com/high-heat/vht-flameproof-coating

Yah this is not the same. VHT is spray on exhaust spray. That’s very thin and in an exhaust application that’s fine, but that’s not going to repair a tear or fill it. So that’s literally not the same thing or process.

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