Rare problem: 5th/6th gear bucking/surging and cruise control not working

[MikeR397]

Dittos on this problem for me. Recently driving down to Daytona Speedway for a Chin event and started on I-95 in 6th. Stopped at dealer in Daytona and went for a test drive with the tech riding along with his laptop connected. He found that the clutch and brake pedal sensors both showed partial, intermittent engagement - when they both were clearly not being engaged. We surmised it might be related to the auto-blip connected to the car and pedals. Now it sounds like that may not be the case but possibly the TSB 19-2090. I've had Xineering rewire the blip unit and also replace the brake sensor switch - hoping that will resolve. Will pick up later this week and test on the 2 hour drive back home.

please keep me posted. I also have the auto blip installed, but turn it off on the streets so don’t see how it would be causing anything being off? Anyone else with these issue have an autoblip also installed?

i have had tsb19-2099 done and it didn’t fix anything.

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[MikeR397]

if you are having this issue, first thing is to get TSB 19-2090 done (or whatever is the latest one ) and specifically ask them to check for the "trigger wheel sensor" wear. they will have to remove your drive shaft meaning mid section exhaust would have to come off.

if you have code P0833 along with it, replace the upper (top) clutch sensor, the sensor itself is like 10 bucks max but to replace it you need to remove the driver knee airbag, kinda PITA. get those two items out of the way first, hopefully this will fix your issue.

So you had this issue and fixed it?

I have hade code p0833 as well. It usually eventually triggers a cel with the surging, but takes awhile to do so. This is what I pulled when my trans was over heating before it was replaced, so ignore the transmission related codes

eta: I see yours is still not fixed. I wonder if pulling the clutch up with your left foot in drive would make a more firm contact with the upper clutch sensor and see if they stops the surging? I don’t have my car back to try.

 

[arsenalrocks]

no, not yet fixed, car is in the shop

car is bone stock (other than the K&N air filter and camber plates), no auto-blip, no nothing, no tune, stock tire meaning stock diameter

Here is a list of what I + dealer have replaced

both clutch switches (very cheap), one is at the top of the clutch one is at the bottom, top one is for the code P0833, this one is hard to replace if you have big hands
4 ABS speed sensors at each wheel, easy to replace, need to take off fender liner
transmission input speed sensor, located at the end of the transmission on the passenger side
transmission output speed sensor, located at the end of the transmission on the passenger side (i actually recommend everyone to check mine was loose from this beast of an engine, you can see some leaking of the tranny fluid)
"trigger wheel sensor" need to take off driveshaft, master tech confirmed it was worn
TSB 19-2090 fix, yes it did help a bit. less jerky now.

this is the most annoying problem I ever had for any cars, how am I going to sell this thing down the road ? buyer would take the car home, drive on the highway for a bit, and 20mins later wrench light will be on. and they will spend countless $$$ and hours trying to fix this too.

So you had this issue and fixed it?

 

[MikeR397]

Can you maybe re title this thread to include “6th bucking/surging” and cruise not working, or something like that to maybe get more eyes for folks experiencing this issue?

 

[526 HRSE]

I don't want to take mine in. It's 3rd party insurance and they probably won't even notice the resonator delete, but i think i'm safer taking out the Proflex e85, just to make sure it's not messing with anything.

 

[TDC]

On my car they updated the PCM and replaced the output trans sensor. I have since sold it but for the 1000 miles I drove it after the repair I did not have an issue.

 

[arsenalrocks]

thank you TDC, talking to the master tech, he is leaning towards either wiring harness issue or PCM.

When you say update the PCM, do you mean a software update?

On my car they updated the PCM and replaced the output trans sensor. I have since sold it but for the 1000 miles I drove it after the repair I did not have an issue.

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

Understand you want this fixed but if they can not get to the bottom of it, would lemon law apply as long as it is still under warranty so you wouldn't take a huge bath on it if you couldn't live with it and wanted to trade off or sell? See it's a 2016 so about to run out of the powertrain warranty.

 

[MikeR397]

Understand you want this fixed but if they can not get to the bottom of it, would lemon law apply as long as it is still under warranty so you wouldn't take a huge bath on it if you couldn't live with it and wanted to trade off or sell? See it's a 2016 so about to run out of the powertrain warranty.

In MI at least, lemon law is really just 1st year. You could use federal Magnuson law to get a partial refund on purchase price if you win, then decide to ditch the car or keep it depending on if it can get fixed. If not fixed, it’s gonna have to be traded in and take a bath as I couldn’t feel comfortable directly selling a car like this to someone.

the problem then is msrp went from about $64k on a 16/17 R to almost $80k, limited inventory and markups to deal with even if you find a suitable replacement. Lord knows Ford doesn’t give a crap and won’t help you get in a new working car, at least until sued.

 

[Tank]

@bigmixx , check this thread out too.

 

[pbrmeasap]

please keep me posted. I also have the auto blip installed, but turn it off on the streets so don’t see how it would be causing anything being off? Anyone else with these issue have an autoblip also installed?

i have had tsb19-2099 done and it didn’t fix anything.

Ok. Picked up vehicle from Xineering and drove around 120 miles back home with no problems. They had rewired the blip unit and also found that the brake switch was faulty, so replaced that as well. Max says this switch is used on many different Ford models and is the 2nd that they found to be faulty. Basically, it was uber sensitive, engaging even when going over rough road, etc. Prior to replacing, they found the same issue with the cruise control disengaging, which makes sense since it was sensing brake application.
Sooo, I am hopeful this resolves the bucking issue. Will know for certain at the Audi Club Daytona event Dec 12 & 13.

 

[MikeR397]

Ok. Picked up vehicle from Xineering and drove around 120 miles back home with no problems. They had rewired the blip unit and also found that the brake switch was faulty, so replaced that as well. Max says this switch is used on many different Ford models and is the 2nd that they found to be faulty. Basically, it was uber sensitive, engaging even when going over rough road, etc. Prior to replacing, they found the same issue with the cruise control disengaging, which makes sense since it was sensing brake application.
Sooo, I am hopeful this resolves the bucking issue. Will know for certain at the Audi Club Daytona event Dec 12 & 13.

Thanks for the update. Ya I don’t think a road trip for 120 miles would reveal the symptoms necessarily, but your two day track day will (jealous! Track season is over in MI, time to get the snowmobiles ready).

other people with these bucking issues don’t have the auto blip and also turning it off would fix it if it was the cause, so don’t think auto blip is related.

the brake sensor makes sense why cruise would turn off, but not the surging/bucking. My cruise won’t even engage or show the on light many times, not just getting kicked out of cruise. Ask, It’s not a brake being applied in 6th that makes the car acceleration attempt to kick/buck. The brake would just slow you down. I can floor the car and you can hear the engine surging in 6th and feel that it’s throttle related. I have lots of videos of it, I’ll put one on YouTube and post here...

eta: my Rpm strangely doesn’t fluctuate when this happens

 

[MikeR397]

Here is a video of my surging/bucking in 6th. It sounds like a metallic rasp sorts. Like I said no flutters in revs which I find unusual. I have several other videos (done for evidence for Ford and dealer) from lots of other dates but they all look similar. Check engine light and or wrench see manual icon.

 

[arsenalrocks]

this seems a little different than mine, mine felt like someone is feathering with the brake, on/off, on/off for a few seconds

Here is a video of my surging/bucking in 6th. It sounds like a metallic rasp sorts. Like I said no flutters in revs which I find unusual. I have several other videos (done for evidence for Ford and dealer) from lots of other dates but they all look similar. Check engine light and or wrench see manual icon.

 

[pbrmeasap]

this seems a little different than mine, mine felt like someone is feathering with the brake, on/off, on/off for a few seconds

Agreed. Mine was more of just a hesitation and never a surge. As if the ECU was confused with seeming random brake application (due to faulty brake pedal switch). Again, only the wrench was shown on dash with 'See Owners Manual' and no trouble code.
The Ford tech discovered the problem when doing a ride along while monitoring the car with his laptop connected, that being unexplained pedal engagement. I'm told from others that those switches, even though very critical, are oftentimes found to be faulty.

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