Racing Wear and Tear: Rebuild or New Engine?

[Shadow277]

What wear and tear do we see with these Coyote engines and I suppose the MT82 transmission as well? I have heard from people who race often say "engines do go out. It's something you have to get over." So do we buy entirely new engines or are rebuilds a viable option? Cams, pistons, rods, valves. I have heard them called "consumables."

I want to get more into racing and I understand parts will break. I also heard the water pumps in our cars are weak and even some causing engine damage once they go out.

What advice do we have for avid racers from veterans of this hobby?

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[FreePenguin]

I don't race or anything, but I would imagine rebuilding the stock engine, with better parts, would hold up better than entire new engine, and the labor to put new engine in, etc.. cost would probably be similar assuming you didn't blow a rod through the block.

 

[ice445]

They're pretty stout engines, although the water pumps are known to fail when spun hard for long periods of time (like on track). They also like to fail for no real reason. The timing chains and tensioners (and oil pump gears) are probably the weakest link overall, if you're regulalry tickling redline they'll need to be replaced sooner rather than later. The oil pump gears aren't made of the highest quality material so extended high revs beats them up and they can crack after enough abuse. There's also an issue with the driver side cylinder head where the coolant flow dead ends and has to flow all the way back. Look up the "head cooling mod" to bypass this minor defect. Basically involves popping a freeze plug and dumping the head flow into the heater core bypass so that there's always strong flow in that cylinder head. If you don't, the ring on #8 can overheat and break the ringland on track especially when boosted.

None of this stuff is an issue on a street car even if you hit redline a few times a day, but on track it's a different story and the wear will add up much quicker. As far as internals go, they will hold up just fine. But most people running on track switch to at least a 5W30 full synthetic. Some people are using 5W50 to combat the soaring oil temps you'll likely see, especially with the stock radiator which is inadequate on track.

 

[Shadow277]

They're pretty stout engines, although the water pumps are known to fail when spun hard for long periods of time (like on track). They also like to fail for no real reason. The timing chains and tensioners (and oil pump gears) are probably the weakest link overall, if you're regulalry tickling redline they'll need to be replaced sooner rather than later. The oil pump gears aren't made of the highest quality material so extended high revs beats them up and they can crack after enough abuse. There's also an issue with the driver side cylinder head where the coolant flow dead ends and has to flow all the way back. Look up the "head cooling mod" to bypass this minor defect. Basically involves popping a freeze plug and dumping the head flow into the heater core bypass so that there's always strong flow in that cylinder head. If you don't, the ring on #8 can overheat and break the ringland on track especially when boosted.

None of this stuff is an issue on a street car even if you hit redline a few times a day, but on track it's a different story and the wear will add up much quicker. As far as internals go, they will hold up just fine. But most people running on track switch to at least a 5W30 full synthetic. Some people are using 5W50 to combat the soaring oil temps you'll likely see, especially with the stock radiator which is inadequate on track.

I'm pretty much all stock. Not sure if the previous owner tuned this car. I run what the manual says for oil as well but full synthetic. I think Pennzoil was supposed to be pretty strong.

What if I swapped out the waterpump for an Edelbrock pump? Are these cooling mods going to be a necessity for someone who is pretty much stock?

 

[Martin Schacht]

Ford Part #: M-6007-M50C stick, use M50CAUTO for automatic. This is the complete Coyote crate engine: $8,601 from JEGS, it's out of the 2020 Ford Performance Catalog, page 80.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Performance/397/M-6007-M50C/10002/-1
Try buying a 460 HP Porsche engine, BMW engine for this price.

 

[Shifting_Gears]

What type of racing, what frequency? That will determine a lot of your answers.

Routine maintenance will help the most in keeping a stock engine alive for a normal service life. Plus, having common sense not to just beat off the rev limiter.

 

[Shadow277]

What type of racing, what frequency? That will determine a lot of your answers.

Routine maintenance will help the most in keeping a stock engine alive for a normal service life. Plus, having common sense not to just beat off the rev limiter.

Road Course with maybe 3 events per year.

 

[thelostotter]

I see you are from AZ; I recommend putting in a splash of race gas when you go to track to give you some more knock resistance. Just a friendly suggestion from someone who just rebuilt their motor due to low compression on cylinders 6-8. Cracked ring lands, likely due to detonation. Now I try to blend enough unleaded race fuel in to bump the octane to 95+. I threw in the head cooling mod mentioned above at the same time.

Our engines are pretty durable if you keep the revs under ~7200rpm and keep knock under control.

 

[luc]

Road Course with maybe 3 events per year.

Talking w2w racing or open track?

 

[Shadow277]

Talking w2w racing or open track?

Good question. Never been to a track day other than the drag strip so I don't know.

 

[EFI]

Road Course with maybe 3 events per year.

Keep up with maintenance and you're far far far away from any sort of wear issues with the engine or trans. If you were doing competitive racing dozens of time a year, I'd say yeah you have to worry about refreshing things.

I did 5 years of 6-8 events per summer and the whole car ran in tip top shape.

 

[Shadow277]

Keep up with maintenance and you're far far far away from any sort of wear issues with the engine or trans. If you were doing competitive racing dozens of time a year, I'd say yeah you have to worry about refreshing things.

I did 5 years of 6-8 events per summer and the whole car ran in tip top shape.

That's very comforting to know. I may go to the track 2 or 3 times throughout the year. All depends on how the new baby goes. First one and he's a boy.

Side bar - got his room with different types of cars. My wife got me a "Dad's work shop" for the garage for Christmas. The big gift was the tall work bench/tool drawer. Love that woman.

 

[tevaburns]

What wear and tear do we see with these Coyote engines and I suppose the MT82 transmission as well? I have heard from people who race often say "engines do go out. It's something you have to get over." So do we buy entirely new engines or are rebuilds a viable option? Cams, pistons, rods, valves. I have heard them called "consumables."

I want to get more into racing and I understand parts will break. I also heard the water pumps in our cars are weak and even some causing engine damage once they go out.

What advice do we have for avid racers from veterans of this hobby?

I had a coyote fail (2 rod-bearings spun) at 12,000 miles on my third road course track day. I had it rebuilt by Chris Holbrook. He said the failure was either just oil starvation due to high-G's or that + bad bearing tolerances from the factory (which he sees often). If you are going to do track days I would invest in a road-race oil pan with baffles. I went with a Moroso pan but the GT500 oil pan is great too.

Other recommended mods: OPG's, bigger radiator, track pads, fresh fluids, 5w50, E-85

 

[Zrussian13]

That's very comforting to know. I may go to the track 2 or 3 times throughout the year. All depends on how the new baby goes. First one and he's a boy.

Side bar - got his room with different types of cars. My wife got me a "Dad's work shop" for the garage for Christmas. The big gift was the tall work bench/tool drawer. Love that woman.

Congrats on the baby! I keep telling myself I'm going to get out to the track but my little girl is about to turn 2 and I haven't been able to make the time.

I'm also in AZ and I drive my car hard. 52k miles and running strong. Tuned since 5k and turboed at 48k. These engines are strong and its a good platform to work with. Stay up on maintenance and the odds will be with you. Have fun!

 

[Grintch]

I see you are from AZ; I recommend putting in a splash of race gas when you go to track to give you some more knock resistance. Just a friendly suggestion from someone who just rebuilt their motor due to low compression on cylinders 6-8. Cracked ring lands, likely due to detonation.

Leaded race gas and catalytic converters do not go well together.

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