Quick E85 question

[acemastr]

I daily my E85, did 1000 miles last week for work. It isn't cheaper, but it's a lot more fun and smells nice.

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[MaskedRacerX]

You can’t do this, the new PCMs log everything.

The actual changes in the ECM/Tune are __not__ logged, i.e., if fuel tables are altered by a custom tune, then returned to stock, the previous values aren't recorded.

What __is__ recorded is the fact a flash was done. So then it becomes a case of "We don't have 10 flash updates documented so how did these occur ...", the key count is related: as of the last ECU update, the number of key cycles is counted, so if you've got a 2 year old car with 12,000 miles with 10 key cycles, something is obviously up.

It's still a bit speculative on their part, but at that point it's you vs. Ford.

There's also something called the drive cycle, it's like the new car ECU break in, where you have to do X number of miles/starts/warmups/etc., I and I believe a flash reset this as well. More info here:

http://www.obdii.com/drivecycleford.html

FYI e85 is not more cost affective to run. So you saying 93 is getting expensive is irrelevant. But, if the performance gain is worth it to you like it is for many that’s up to you.

Yeah, lower cost-per-gallon but you go through it much quicker. I've never done the actual calculation, but an "in head" back-of-the-napkin tells me it's pretty close.

 

[Twenty4/7]

The actual changes in the ECM/Tune are __not__ logged, i.e., if fuel tables are altered by a custom tune, then returned to stock, the previous values aren't recorded.

What __is__ recorded is the fact a flash was done. So then it becomes a case of "We don't have 10 flash updates documented so how did these occur ...", the key count is related: as of the last ECU update, the number of key cycles is counted, so if you've got a 2 year old car with 12,000 miles with 10 key cycles, something is obviously up.

It's still a bit speculative on their part, but at that point it's you vs. Ford.

There's also something called the drive cycle, it's like the new car ECU break in, where you have to do X number of miles/starts/warmups/etc., I and I believe a flash reset this as well. More info here:

http://www.obdii.com/drivecycleford.html




Yeah, lower cost-per-gallon but you go through it much quicker. I've never done the actual calculation, but an "in head" back-of-the-napkin tells me it's pretty close.

It’s 3x % more fuel going from e10 to e85. I’ve been paying 2.2x a gallon for e85. Simple math puts that near 3 dollars adding 30%. So about the same.

if the gov ever stopped pumping money into ethanol fuel to keep it cheap I don’t know how it would make sense for anyone to run ethanol in a normal flex fuel car. Screw all of us using it for performance guys over if it went away.

 

[cactus_kid]

You can't 'void' a warranty. Ford would have to prove that the problem was caused by the E85... and I'd be flashing the stock map and filling it with 93 in the event of a catastrophic problem.

Do you have the funds to fight a legal battle with Ford ? I highly doubt it. Yes, the onus is on Ford to do so. However, your vehicle will remain unrepaired for the duration of the litigation. Are you prepared for this financially ? Are you willing to cover the litigation costs for the op should he take your advice ? If not, may I politely suggest you delete your post ..........

 

[Zinc03svt]

First off, tuning does NOT void your warranty. Ford ecu/tcu’s do NOT record nor show TD1’s. The way Ford can detect a tune is a blown engine on a car with 25,000 miles that has one key count on ecu. That is not possible. That shows one engine run since new or ecu flash. If the ecu is not on Ford’s record receiving a new flash then it is pretty obvious it was tuned. Lol.

I had 2k warranty coverage for new cam phasers around 5000 miles. It was tuned since it had 100 miles on it. Made sure I got 30 plus key counts on it before taking to dealership on stock tune. Zero problems and zero questions. Stop the blanket uninformed statements about E85 this or that voids your powertrain. Off rant.

 

[Matthewstorm]

What's a key count?

 

[Jmtoast]

Unless it is a Ford/Roush tune such as the one provided in the Ford Performance PP2, any tune, be it Livernois, Lund, Palmbeach, etc is going to put your powertrain coverage at risk. Been there, done that 10 yrs ago. Had headers, sims, tune ................. Zone rep saw the headers. End of coverage !

Yes and no. Technically yes they "void" (Roush's language not mine) the warranty and ROush replaces it with their own but in reality I've never seen or heard of service denied for Roush products. By either Ford or Roush.

 

[Decible]

Yeah, lower cost-per-gallon but you go through it much quicker. I've never done the actual calculation, but an "in head" back-of-the-napkin tells me it's pretty close.

I did the math some years ago on my flex fuel truck. It fell between 27 - 31% less. So if you get 330 miles for 16 gallons you’d get 231 on E85. When I’m in town it’s 200 miles a week or I fill up every 7 days or 4x a month 93. 93 is 2.68 here and E85 is 1.93. 42.88 to fill up with 93; 30.88 to fill up with E85. I’d still have to fill up 4x a month. So you would save 20 - 50 a month in my case.

 

[K4fxd]

What's a key count?

The number of times the car was started.

I'm pretty sure if your water pump failed they would not care if the car is tuned. If you put a hole in a piston or send a rod through the block, they would.

So warranty just depends

All coyote powered Fords are capable of flex with just a tune. The gen 2 needs larger injectors if it has a different manifold or other bolt on's like headers.

What most do is copy the Flex part of the F 150 tune to the mustang.

I don't know why Ford dosent activate it on the mustang. Makes no sense.

 

[Decible]

The number of times the car was started.

I'm pretty sure if your water pump failed they would not care if the car is tuned. If you put a hole in a piston or send a rod through the block, they would.

So warranty just depends

All coyote powered Fords are capable of flex with just a tune. The gen 2 needs larger injectors if it has a different manifold or other bolt on's like headers.

What most do is copy the Flex part of the F 150 tune to the mustang.

I don't know why Ford dosent activate it on the mustang. Makes no sense.

I said the same thing. That’s why I asked. In my head it made no sense to not have the fuel tables in there.

 

[cactus_kid]

This is truly a question you can answer. We cannot do it for you. I can tell you that my Mach 1 will never see a tune. It just isn't worth the risk to me. Not worth the "Dirty Harry" risk.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

15-17 do need bigger injectors I believe since there's no DI

Don’t need them either. Lund tuned my 15. The car had headers, cai intake and e85 tune on the stock injectors.

 

[K4fxd]

If Lund did do that tune he was maxing out the injector duty cycle. Not a smart thing to do.

Stock on 93 the injectors are running at 70%, E85 alone puts them around 85.

Adding headers would add another 5% or so.

I'm not a fan of Lund but I cannot see him running injectors at 90% or above.

 

[Decible]

If Lund did do that tune he was maxing out the injector duty cycle. Not a smart thing to do.

Stock on 93 the injectors are running at 70%, E85 alone puts them around 85.

Adding headers would add another 5% or so.

I'm not a fan of Lund but I cannot see him running injectors at 90% or above.

Curious as to what the duty cycle is on the 18+ cars.

 

[K4fxd]

The 18 and up have 2 injectors per cylinder so their is no way to compare. There is enough headroom to make an E85 tune safe even with bolt-ons.

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