Quarter Mile before and after Whipple

[twold]

Just had a beautiful sunny day at Long Marston dragstrip.

Last year same track N/A with zero mods and I managed 13.34/107 mph

This time with Whipple stage 2, stock UK headers ,Whipple tune,stock wheels but MPSS rears fitted last week,cradle lockout (helps stop wheel tramp).

First run was in Standard Auto mode and managed only a disappointing 13.08/113mph ,so a slight improvement on stock time and 6 mph up on terminal speed compared to last years N/A attempt .

Last 2 runs were much better though.I used Auto Sport mode this time (NOT track mode) and managed a best of 12.85/119 mph.

Traction off the line (and my ineptitude) were a problem though after going to Sport Mode and I think at least half a second to a second was lost there and this could have affected the terminal speed by 2-3 mph maybe .I dropped the tyre pressure a very small amount after advice from the locals but apparently nowhere near enough.It needs to be very visibly lower to make a difference apparently.

So......Yes after the Whipple install it is faster at the track....it actually felt much faster than the timeslip suggested to the degree that while driving back to the pits I half expected a crowd to gather around my car after the runs applauding and looking on in awe.....sadly they did not:hail:.
Gibbo for example has managed only a few mph/tenth less than this without FI ,and much much less money too.



Having said that It does 'feel' so much faster than stock at the track and just keeps going and going .I could not consider going back to stock now even though I have reservations about the crazy money that I have spent for relatively small gains on paper.

Importantly if you are contemplating FI ,firstly don't believe all the hype and exaggeration that is out there and then you will be fine.


Whipple Stage 2 /72 lb inj/132mm Throttle body/3.75 Pulley/6 rib belt/boost gauge . OPG/TG. BMR Cradle Lockout/Steeda adj Diff kit/Steeda IRS subframe align kit. Roush axleback.Spacers F25mm R21mm.Stock wheels/ P Zero front/MPSS Rear.Undersealed.

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[Gibbo205]

Dude something is wrong with your car or the tune is really limiting power.

Your terminal speed is poor for FI, Mac was doing 124mph terminals with a manual and a dislocated thumb so he could not change gear and could not launch it. He will now be around 130-135mph terminals now he can smash it through the gears and is Lund tuned with headers.

Whipple stage1 is around 123-125mph and stage2 is around 130mph on an auto. More with a custom tune!

119mph is not great, I am doing 115mph with a manual and have still not had a run where my foot was full throttle, in short I manage that the car will go mid/low 12's at around 117-118mph.

Your car being an AUTO changes gear spot on every time, suspect the launch with so much power takes some finesse though.

I think you should get a Lund tune buddy and something just seems not right with your car/tune, even if you walked it off the line, changed in 2nd and then floored it you should still be 120+ in terminal speed. Like I say Mac hit 124mph on Whipple tune and his gear changes were mega slow due to dislocated thumb issue.

Your car has way more in it.

 

[djone101]

What fuel are you using?

The engine calibration adapts to fuel quality and on regular 95 will be reducing power which can be through the throttle and/or spark. We have seen this on dyno. Talking to Whipple they explained that whilst it reacts quite quickly to poor fuel it can take a full tank of 98/99 to learn back to increase power back to where it should be.

 

[Manders Mustang]

@twold before you embark on the Lund tune (which, just from reading Gibbos and others who've got them to tune their cars), did you do the OPG and FPG's with the Whipple stage 2? Just out of securities sake. It's probably worth doing, especially if you'll go with the Lund tune (which will get you moving far faster without a doubt)!

Edit: P.S now we can get a here's 'NA/Whip tune s2/ Lund tune s2' runs all from the same driver! ;)!

 

[twold]

What fuel are you using?

The engine calibration adapts to fuel quality and on regular 95 will be reducing power which can be through the throttle and/or spark. We have seen this on dyno. Talking to Whipple they explained that whilst it reacts quite quickly to poor fuel it can take a full tank of 98/99 to learn back to increase power back to where it should be.

I was running Tesco 99 ,have never used less than 97.
One thing I have switched ON is Knock limiting in the software.I know this can cause a slight power decrease and at the dyno the difference between on and off showed as 20 hp.The dyno jet read a best of 562rwhp in 4th (auto) and knock was OFF.I also have the rpm limit set at the lower one 7200 rpm I think.

I did notice a slight 'cough' just as I reached the quarter mile each time I ran so maybe it is too rich?

I have been thinking of visiting you in Essex which is 4 hrs from me:(, do you also have a dyno?


===============
Whipple Stage 2 /72 lb inj/132mm Throttle body/3.75 Pulley/6 rib belt/boost gauge . OPG/TG. BMR Cradle Lockout/Steeda adj Diff kit/Steeda IRS subframe align kit. Roush axleback.Spacers F25mm R21mm.Stock wheels/ P Zero front/MPSS Rear.Undersealed.

 

[Gibbo205]

I was running Tesco 99 ,have never used less than 97.
One thing I have switched ON is Knock limiting in the software.I know this can cause a slight power decrease and at the dyno the difference between on and off showed as 20 hp.The dyno jet read a best of 562rwhp in 4th (auto) and knock was OFF.I also have the rpm limit set at the lower one 7200 rpm I think.

I did notice a slight 'cough' just as I reached the quarter mile each time I ran so maybe it is too rich?

I have been thinking of visiting you in Essex which is 4 hrs from me:(, do you also have a dyno?

Man just get a Lund tune on the car, because it is clearly not running to healthy, I would suspect Whipple have it running way to rich and our fuel quality on Vpower99 and Tesco99 is better than the Americans Octane 93 typically.

Vpower99 does however have more resistance to knock compared to Tesco 99. I was witness to some extensive testing by maha on regular unleaded fuel, super unleaded, tesco 99 and Vpower99. The results were interested particular on a turbo charged car. The final result was Tesco 99 made peak power by 2HP but there was some knock issues. Whereas Vpower had zero knock and was only 2HP down.

Also 99 was gaining like 20HP over 97 and 40-50HP over 95 on a turbo car where the manufacturer stated 97 RON fuel.

I would seriously get a Lund tune on it to get the fuelling corrected and the car running right.

My car is in the region of 440-450WHP, it is capable of crossing the line at 115-117mph depending on if I can keep my foot in it.

Your car is 100+ WHP up on the Whipple tune, as such if you get a good run it should cross the line at 127-129mph based on your power. I suspect you must have had epic traction issues to only be crossing at 119mph, unless the dyno you ran on was an extremely happy dyno. ;)

For comparison 666mac made around 670WHP I believe before his final Lund tweaked tune and headers, so he is now no doubt making more.

As Manders said, if your not running upgraded OPG/Sprocket, GET IT DONE, though on a Whipple tune they claim it is safe, people have broken them on stock Whipple tunes, rare but it will cost around £1000 in parts/labour which is far cheaper than a 10K+ engine repair/replacement bill.

Then get it Lund tuned on the fuel you always put in it and you will be totally blown away man, trust me forget the fact it might gain 50-100HP, it more how Lund set the driving, transforms the car.

All I would recommend as your car is an AUTO, tell Lund to not change your auto shift firmness and to also not increase rev limit beyond 7200rpm, because when Enoch took me out in his car the automatic shifting was horrible because Lund set it so aggressive.

 

[djone101]

We don't have an in house dyno - the one we use is Track n Road in Rainham which is not that close by. There's not much we could do diagnostically without running it on the dyno unfortunately.

 

[twold]

Man just get a Lund tune on the car, because it is clearly not running to healthy, I would suspect Whipple have it running way to rich and our fuel quality on Vpower99 and Tesco99 is better than the Americans Octane 93 typically.

Vpower99 does however have more resistance to knock compared to Tesco 99. I was witness to some extensive testing by maha on regular unleaded fuel, super unleaded, tesco 99 and Vpower99. The results were interested particular on a turbo charged car. The final result was Tesco 99 made peak power by 2HP but there was some knock issues. Whereas Vpower had zero knock and was only 2HP down.

Also 99 was gaining like 20HP over 97 and 40-50HP over 95 on a turbo car where the manufacturer stated 97 RON fuel.

I would seriously get a Lund tune on it to get the fuelling corrected and the car running right.

My car is in the region of 440-450WHP, it is capable of crossing the line at 115-117mph depending on if I can keep my foot in it.

Your car is 100+ WHP up on the Whipple tune, as such if you get a good run it should cross the line at 127-129mph based on your power. I suspect you must have had epic traction issues to only be crossing at 119mph, unless the dyno you ran on was an extremely happy dyno. ;)

For comparison 666mac made around 670WHP I believe before his final Lund tweaked tune and headers, so he is now no doubt making more.

As Manders said, if your not running upgraded OPG/Sprocket, GET IT DONE, though on a Whipple tune they claim it is safe, people have broken them on stock Whipple tunes, rare but it will cost around £1000 in parts/labour which is far cheaper than a 10K+ engine repair/replacement bill.

Then get it Lund tuned on the fuel you always put in it and you will be totally blown away man, trust me forget the fact it might gain 50-100HP, it more how Lund set the driving, transforms the car.

All I would recommend as your car is an AUTO, tell Lund to not change your auto shift firmness and to also not increase rev limit beyond 7200rpm, because when Enoch took me out in his car the automatic shifting was horrible because Lund set it so aggressive.

I have been avoiding the Lund tune due to :1) You get closer to breaking the engine with Lund compared to Whipple tune ,2) We intentionally got rid of our other cars to have just the one car so that every time we left our house it would be an 'event' ,so it has be a runabout and a racer in one ,problem is drag racing is addictive and I now need 'more'...but I also want some miles out of this engine,it is a balancing act.

The OPG/timing gear was done last year.


===============
Whipple Stage 2 /72 lb inj/132 Throttle body/3.75 Pulley/6 rib belt/boost gauge . OPG/TG. BMR Cradle Lockout/Steeda adj Diff kit/Steeda IRS subframe align kit. Roush axleback.Spacers F25mm R21mm.Stock wheels/ P Zero front/MPSS Rear.Undersealed.

 

[Manders Mustang]

I have been avoiding the Lund tune due to :1) You get closer to breaking the engine with Lund compared to Whipple tune ,2) We intentionally got rid of our other cars to have just the one car so that every time we left our house it would be an 'event' ,so it has be a runabout and a racer in one ,problem is drag racing is addictive and I now need 'more'...but I also want some miles out of this engine,it is a balancing act.

The OPG/timing gear was done last year.

Be fine. Mac's drives like a granny daily until you step onit.

 

[Gibbo205]

I have been avoiding the Lund tune due to :1) You get closer to breaking the engine with Lund compared to Whipple tune ,2) We intentionally got rid of our other cars to have just the one car so that every time we left our house it would be an 'event' ,so it has be a runabout and a racer in one ,problem is drag racing is addictive and I now need 'more'...but I also want some miles out of this engine,it is a balancing act.

The OPG/timing gear was done last year.

Lund have not broken any Whipple engines, their tunes are not dangerous, if anything they are safer because they are custom tunes, whereas Whipple tune is just a canned tune.

Lund gain more power whilst being safer at the same time and of course you have your own dedicated tuner and you can tell them you want a tune that is designed for maximum safety, though they won't actually give you a tune that could damage the engine and as to engine lifespan reduction well you bit that bullet when you went FI, custom tuning it won't reduce it any further, if anything it will extend it because fuelling will be spot on. Too rich and you get bore wash, to lean and things get too hot, Lund get it spot on which Whipple with a canned tune get it close but not spot on.

Plus you say the car was having hiccups across the line, I am sorry but it would drive me mad if the car had drive ability issues, for me anything I do the car must not lose any ability to daily the car and must not have me in fear of going WOT because it might cough and splutter.

Also having driven Mac's car a couple of times and speaking a lot with Alan, both who used Whipple tunes, both complained how shit the stock Whipple tune drove, I was in Mac's car on the Whipple tune and it was not great, huge amounts of rev hang and though fast it did not feel crazy fast, bit of a let down. Both Alan and Mac are now Lund tuned, Alan got 725HP and he is Stage 1.5, bigger TB but smaller injectors and stock headers. He is now fitting Kooks and Stage 2 injectors, he will be knocking on door at 800HP which is where Mac is at. The thing is I drove Mac's car and light and partial throttle it drives like stock, no I lie, it drives better than the stock car because Lund have tuned over 1000 Whippled cars, it is their most dialled in setup to the point it drives better than stock and even better it puts the power down because they do not ramp the timing down low, they could but what is the point if the car just blows the tyres off. The Lund tune drives better, puts power down better and makes more power than Whipple. For the $300-$500 you will have a better daily car and the biggest element to engine wear is RPM, so if your worried about that tell them to put the limiter at 7000rpm.

Alternatively maybe drop a complaint to Whipple as it is possible they know a fix or even have an updated map available.

 

[twold]

Lund have not broken any Whipple engines, their tunes are not dangerous, if anything they are safer because they are custom tunes, whereas Whipple tune is just a canned tune.

Lund gain more power whilst being safer at the same time and of course you have your own dedicated tuner and you can tell them you want a tune that is designed for maximum safety, though they won't actually give you a tune that could damage the engine and as to engine lifespan reduction well you bit that bullet when you went FI, custom tuning it won't reduce it any further, if anything it will extend it because fuelling will be spot on. Too rich and you get bore wash, to lean and things get too hot, Lund get it spot on which Whipple with a canned tune get it close but not spot on.

Plus you say the car was having hiccups across the line, I am sorry but it would drive me mad if the car had drive ability issues, for me anything I do the car must not lose any ability to daily the car and must not have me in fear of going WOT because it might cough and splutter.

Also having driven Mac's car a couple of times and speaking a lot with Alan, both who used Whipple tunes, both complained how shit the stock Whipple tune drove, I was in Mac's car on the Whipple tune and it was not great, huge amounts of rev hang and though fast it did not feel crazy fast, bit of a let down. Both Alan and Mac are now Lund tuned, Alan got 725HP and he is Stage 1.5, bigger TB but smaller injectors and stock headers. He is now fitting Kooks and Stage 2 injectors, he will be knocking on door at 800HP which is where Mac is at. The thing is I drove Mac's car and light and partial throttle it drives like stock, no I lie, it drives better than the stock car because Lund have tuned over 1000 Whippled cars, it is their most dialled in setup to the point it drives better than stock and even better it puts the power down because they do not ramp the timing down low, they could but what is the point if the car just blows the tyres off. The Lund tune drives better, puts power down better and makes more power than Whipple. For the $300-$500 you will have a better daily car and the biggest element to engine wear is RPM, so if your worried about that tell them to put the limiter at 7000rpm.

Alternatively maybe drop a complaint to Whipple as it is possible they know a fix or even have an updated map available.

Ok Gibbo you're slowly talkng me round,I will look into the pro/con of Lund.
Where have you guys put your Lund Nguage.My centre vent is taken by my Boost guage and I don't want to lose another vent?



===============
Whipple Stage 2 /72 lb inj/132mm Throttle body/3.75 Pulley/6 rib belt/boost gauge . OPG/TG. BMR Cradle Lockout/Steeda adj Diff kit/Steeda IRS subframe align kit. Roush axleback.Spacers F25mm R21mm.Stock wheels/ P Zero front/MPSS Rear.Undersealed.

 

[kapiteinlangzaam]

I have been avoiding the Lund tune due to :1) You get closer to breaking the engine with Lund compared to Whipple tune ,2) We intentionally got rid of our other cars to have just the one car so that every time we left our house it would be an 'event' ,so it has be a runabout and a racer in one ,problem is drag racing is addictive and I now need 'more'...but I also want some miles out of this engine,it is a balancing act.

The OPG/timing gear was done last year.

Its been mentioned already, but LUND tunes do not break engines.

LUND will sell you a windscreen mount for the NGAUGE if you dont want it in the centre-stack.

 

[Gibbo205]

Ok Gibbo you're slowly talkng me round,I will look into the pro/con of Lund.
Where have you guys put your Lund Nguage.My centre vent is taken by my Boost guage and I don't want to lose another vent?

I do not use nGauge, I just put the tune on using an SCT X4 (USA Ford 7015) purchased from Ebay USA, was around £275 delivered.

I then got Lund to tune the car, $200, then plus $50 for GT350 mani.

They charge more for FI, around $500 as they make more revisions, though saying that I got my monies worth as my tune took 11 revisions until I was 100% happy, LOL, but I am crazy analytic of how a car drives and performs so they had to make a lot of DBW adjustments to my tune to get the throttle how I like it, but this is something Lund is great for they will set other things up on the car which do not effect power to suite your driving style.

 

[Gibbo205]

P.S.

If you want to do the Lund tune, drop me an email: [email protected]

Reason: I shall put you direct contact with my contact at Lund, who tuned both my car and Mac's car, he is young, super enthusiastic and knows his stuff and will spend hours on perfecting the car for you. He will then get in touch instruct you how to purchase and what you need and then work closely with you on your car/tune and your requirements.

No I do not get any kind of commission I just want you as a fellow member to get a car that drives awesome and is safe.

 

[Gloucesternige]

P.S.

If you want to do the Lund tune, drop me an email: [email protected]

Reason: I shall put you direct contact with my contact at Lund, who tuned both my car and Mac's car, he is young, super enthusiastic and knows his stuff and will spend hours on perfecting the car for you. He will then get in touch instruct you how to purchase and what you need and then work closely with you on your car/tune and your requirements.

No I do not get any kind of commission I just want you as a fellow member to get a car that drives awesome and is safe.

Is there any benefit in getting a Lund tune on a stock GT Gibbo? Do you happen to know if they will sell you a N/A tune, then a FI tune as an add on later should one decide to go down that route?

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