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Procharger Stage 2 Help With Knock

whatsup62

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what engine rpm did you see the ~13.5psi? from my research with my setup on a 3.85 i'd max out the blower (65,000rpm) at 7500 engine rpm.

do you have any exhaust mods?
You are correct - I also ran the 3.85 and 7500 it was done. Long tubes, full 3" to the back, no cats, MBRP exhaust, not restrictive at all.
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Jay-rod427

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Shortly after maxing out the rpm the efficiency range drops off big time, and you're just making more heat without little to no gain.
 

Jay-rod427

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You've got an issue at 6500 or so. Boost drops off a bit, did you partially get out of the gas? Don't have the pedal commanded logged. Also your load is still really soft.
 

sloride

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You've got an issue at 6500 or so. Boost drops off a bit, did you partially get out of the gas? Don't have the pedal commanded logged. Also your load is still really soft.
I’m running a P1X, 2018 Manifold etc and my MAF and loads seem fairly comparable to 5hlucky at 10+psi. When you say load is soft what should the air load be at 10psi. I was under the impression 1.5-1.6 should be close. I also hear mention of max out MAF. What psi or combinations max out the MAF. Thanks
 

Jay-rod427

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I’m running a P1X, 2018 Manifold etc and my MAF and loads seem fairly comparable to 5hlucky at 10+psi. When you say load is soft what should the air load be at 10psi. I was under the impression 1.5-1.6 should be close. I also hear mention of max out MAF. What psi or combinations max out the MAF. Thanks
Umm your load is %150-%160, his is %50..... unless for some weird reason his log profile doesn't factor from 0.

My MAF maxes out at 6,800 with p1x and 4.13" pulley in the heat.

https://datazap.me/u/jay-rod427/413?log=0&data=1-5-9-10
 

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Jay-rod427

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I started to back off the throttle at about 6500 due to traffic, so i'm not terribly concerned with the boost at that point.

So at this point the load is soft, as well as the continuation of my maf lb/min also being low. I looked at some of my older logs and maf lb/min as well as load are both up a couple points after this bypass valve upgrade, so at least it's trending in the right direction. Is load impacted by what gear the logs are done in?
small boost/maf/load increase is likely just different weather conditions from one log to the next. Swapping bypass valve was a waste of time and money imo. You've got a larger issue at play.


Something seems squirrely in the tune. Your maf and load is really weak, but the maf frequency is about what would be expected. load and lbs/min are calculations from fuel and maf freq. or a hardware problem causing a software miscalculation.
 

sloride

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Umm your load is %150-%160, his is %50..... unless for some weird reason his log profile doesn't factor from 0.

My MAF maxes out at 6,800 with p1x and 4.13" pulley in the heat.

https://datazap.me/u/jay-rod427/413?log=0&data=1-5-9-10
Ah I see the 50%. Not 100% sure what that is representing. His logs have the air load ratio and that looks correct in the 1.5ish range.

My MAF might be in the ballpark I’m only running the 4.75” pulley. Assuming same diameter crank pulley your spinning the blower 7,000rpm more. Nice!!!
 

sloride

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not sure if you're directing this to jay-rod427 or me...but i'm on the stage 2 bracketry, pullied down on the p1sc to 4.25.
Kind of both. Your airload starts out around .99 and rises similar to mine up to about 1.6. There is a small dip at 6000rpm. Since you’re pulled down a bit is that why you are expecting either/or more MAF and boost?
 

sloride

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the amount of boost i'm getting seems to be about right for the pulley combo and blower, but the maf lb/min seems to be pretty low, by a fair margin too ~15+lb/min. my next step is scheduling some time on a dyno so i can at least get some hard numbers to match the log data.
Yes I’d be interested in seeing the dyno numbers. Not sure how accurate but thrown around a lot is the 10hp per lbm/min. Do you think the car is down 100+hp? Or should be making into the 800+ crank hp range? I’m still trying to dial mine in but hope to dyno it in the next month or so.
 

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sloride

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My gut is telling me the car is making sub 600whp, which would probably be missing roughly 100hp for the setup. Only one way to find out...I'll update once I can get it on a dyno. Maybe the combination of the 3.31 + centri just doesn't make it feel all that fast?
Definitely the way to go to find out for sure. Mine has 3.73 gears so don’t have a sense for the 3.31 gears.
 

ahl395

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You're hitting a wall at the top of that graph. I'd bet its from knock pulling timing.
 

markmurfie

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Sorry those numbers suck for 11-12PSI. A PD at the same boost would easily be 500 ftlbs of torque and mid 600's hp. Your centri shouldn't be that far behind, especially on the top end.

No change in MAP and a drastic increase in MAF hertz right at 3500 kinda seems like IMRC not being allowed to open under 3500RPM(65mph on graph). Kinda goes back to what I was saying before. Figure this out and your mid range will feel much better than it ever did. Throttle is fully open by then, so IMRC not being open would be a restriction in airflow but not effect pressure too much.

The leveling off at the top seems like an exhaust or intake restriction to me. MAF leveling off and MAP increasing at a faster rate indicates the engine is choking and is becoming more of a restriction, SC is doing its job. You start to see this right around 5500RPM. Theres some knock in the higher RPMs, which isn't helping anything, but with the extra pressure building up its kinda too be expected unless you are on E85 or 100+ octane.

You might consider a ported 18+ manifold with locked out IMRC if you can't get the stock intake with IMRC to work properly below 3500RPM. It would help a ton on the top end as well, all around a huge improvement.

3500rpm airflow limit.PNG


5500RPM restriction.PNG
 

markmurfie

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no need to apologize...those numbers do suck which is why i'm turning to you guys for help! i'm not sure i want to spend roughly $700 on on a ported 18+ intake, and to be honest i don't really car much about numbers past 7k since i rarely live in that area...this is a street car. I would, however, spend $50 for an IMRC lockout kit if you think that would help chase down my my low/mid range power issue.
You can do it with zip ties first just to see if it helps. Make sure you let your tuner know what you are doing to get the proper revision.
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