Procharger D1 HO Kit Dyno Chart 4.1 Pulley - Flat power after 6400 RPM

[jabrax]

I've joined the flat line club.

stg2 - dw 1000 - standard jms bap - brisk plugs

Crappy Sam's club 93 - Log shows 17 timing

Tuner made adjustments to Cam timing, but I wont be able to dyno for the next few weeks.

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[Toothless]

I've joined the flat line club.

stg2 - dw 1000 - standard jms bap - brisk plugs

Crappy Sam's club 93 - Log shows 17 timing

Tuner made adjustments to Cam timing, but I wont be able to dyno for the next few weeks.

How much boost? Timimg seems low for Lund... Must be not so good gas. Lund tunes very rarely show knock, they are mostly always negative KR.

 

[jhatley7]

If it were intake or tune related, wouldnt turbo cars have the same issue? If the intake can't perform over 6500 should show on any FI going through the stock manifold? Doubt Lund can tune above 6500 on PD and turbo but not centri's. Most of this came about after most of country switched to winter fuel, could this be the issue. Wouldn't an easy test for that be back to back dyno runs, on the second pull put in a can of octanium?

 

[r1lovin]

If it were intake or tune related, wouldnt turbo cars have the same issue? If the intake can't perform over 6500 should show on any FI going through the stock manifold? Doubt Lund can tune above 6500 on PD and turbo but not centri's. Most of this came about after most of country switched to winter fuel, could this be the issue. Wouldn't an easy test for that be back to back dyno runs, on the second pull put in a can of octanium?

If its not sorted out by spring ill do a pump gas dyno then e85 see if ut makes a difference.

 

[ProChargerTECH]

If it were intake or tune related, wouldnt turbo cars have the same issue? If the intake can't perform over 6500 should show on any FI going through the stock manifold? Doubt Lund can tune above 6500 on PD and turbo but not centri's. Most of this came about after most of country switched to winter fuel, could this be the issue. Wouldn't an easy test for that be back to back dyno runs, on the second pull put in a can of octanium?

My friends turbo car does the same thing,.... twin kit 55mm units.

The car ONLY does it on pump gas..

When its on race fuel, it pulls all the way up (no change in tune)

 

[jhatley7]

My friends turbo car does the same thing,.... twin kit 55mm units.

The car ONLY does it on pump gas..

When its on race fuel, it pulls all the way up (no change in tune)

Bingo ms109 or e85 is the answer! or Whipple J/K but I do pull all the way to redline.

 

[ProChargerTECH]

Bingo ms109 or e85 is the answer! or Whipple J/K but I do pull all the way to redline.

He is a screen shot, from the Engine Power episode when they installed one of our kits. (same tune sent to every customer)

Since I have the log file from this dyno run, I can tell you at 6,500rpm is where she just started to pull a bit of timing.
If the knock sensors were turned off (like I have seen some other tuners do)
I would be willing to bet it would have gone right through with no dip. (or better fuel)

But thats normal run of the mill pump gas,
The stock system that ships out,
The stock tune that ships out,

Maybe there is some more to be found, but even this car picked up 271 rwhp to the tire with the system install, thats a CRAZY awesome power gain!
So no real reason to be upset about anything.

When the customer got this car back, I remember their first quote...
"Holy Cow this thing is FAST!" ..... I agreed with "Yup"

 

[Toothless]

He is a screen shot, from the Engine Power episode when they installed one of our kits. (same tune sent to every customer)

Since I have the log file from this dyno run, I can tell you at 6,500rpm is where she just started to pull a bit of timing.
If the knock sensors were turned off (like I have seen some other tuners do)
I would be willing to bet it would have gone right through with no dip. (or better fuel)

But thats normal run of the mill pump gas,
The stock system that ships out,
The stock tune that ships out,

Maybe there is some more to be found, but even this car picked up 271 rwhp to the tire with the system install, thats a CRAZY awesome power gain!
So no real reason to be upset about anything.

When the customer got this car back, I remember their first quote...
"Holy Cow this thing is FAST!" ..... I agreed with "Yup"

Was that a manual trans car? I think it was from the power and torque numbers for the stock kit. And that's 8 or 9 psi boost max?

 

[ProChargerTECH]

Was that a manual trans car? I think it was from the power and torque numbers for the stock kit. And that's 8 or 9 psi boost max?

Stick, stock STG2 kit so upper 9psi or right at 10psi
(depending on your gauge accuracy, and elevation)

 

[Toothless]

Stick, stock STG2 kit so upper 9psi or right at 10psi
(depending on your gauge accuracy, and elevation)

My Manual trans car on the stock HO kit (but with D1SC and 4.38" pulley) I had no fall off. I didnt have a gauge, but think my boost was in the 8 to 8.5 psi range. Made 604 whp. Dyno plot was shown in post 33 in this thread. This was on 93 octane and Lund tune.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1363269&postcount=33

My 2016 Auto car had the same kit, and made 570 range with lund tune with this same pulley. When I went up in boost and put on the 4.10" pulley, that is when the flatline started. But my timing and a/f was perfect on every run, even with the flatline. The datalog was just as good on the Auto with 4.38 and 4.10, and the manual trans that didnt flatline. I started seeing flat line issues once the boost was raised. 4.38" pulley showed no flatlining.

 

[ProChargerTECH]

My Manual trans car on the stock HO kit (but with D1SC and 4.38" pulley) I had no fall off. I didnt have a gauge, but think my boost was in the 8 to 8.5 psi range. Made 604 whp. Dyno plot was shown in post 33 in this thread. This was on 93 octane and Lund tune.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1363269&postcount=33

My 2016 Auto car had the same kit, and made 570 range with lund tune with this same pulley. When I went up in boost and put on the 4.10" pulley, that is when the flatline started. But my timing and a/f was perfect on every run, even with the flatline. The datalog was just as good on the Auto with 4.38 and 4.10, and the manual trans that didnt flatline. I started seeing flat line issues once the boost was raised. 4.38" pulley showed no flatlining.

Interesting.....

So one car had it, and the other didn't?
Or you saying that it didn't do it on 8/8.5 psi, then did on higher boost?

Sorry little confused. (need more coffee)

 

[Toothless]

Manual Trans 4.38 pulley 604 whp (8 to 8.5 psi) No flatline

AutoTrans 4.38 puley 570 whp (8 to 8.5 psi) No flatline

AutoTrans 4.10 pulley 590 whp (10 to 11 psi) Flatline

These where with all the same tuner (Lund) and on the same dyno, and same Shell gas, and same ProCharger and fuel parts. Except 4.10" pulley I added the BAP.

Auto car with 4.10" pulley: With more cam tuning and different tuner (Diablomatt) the power increased about 20+ whp and flatine moved up to 6700 rpm. But still flatlined from 6700 RPM to 7500 RPM (even went down slightly)

Added headers same flatline. So IT IS NOT exhaust related at all. Forget even going down that road. It maybe exhaust cam related, but not anything tubing related.

It made we wonder about the higher MAF flow rates causing the problem. The MAF sensor appears to peg out on the datalogs around 10,000 hz (units?). This happens with the 8 to 8.5 psi of boost). At higher boosts it wont read any higher, and I assume it blends with VE tables for fueling, etc.

If you datalog and graph gram/cyl/s (Load) you can see this follows the HP graph. The motor loses its ability to process air about 6700 RPM for some reason. Be that a mechanical limitation, or some other limiting factor around the PCM itself, we dont know.

Quite perplexing this problem is. And no matter how silent people are about this issue. It is an issue AND NO TUNER thus far knows how to fix it.

I have searched the forums and found tunes from Lund, Ken B, Diablomatt, ProCharger, SAI LI etc. And no one knows how to fix it YET. You can help the problem by using a different manifold. Or e85 masks the issue. But there is no good reason the Centri cars shouldnt make power like the PD cars. The PD cars will pull and make power increasingly with RPM. The Centri blowers dont. Unless you keep the boost down.

 

[SolarFlare]

I don't believe Paxton's are doing it.

 

[Toothless]

I don't believe Paxton's are doing it.

Paxton below

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1247072&postcount=43

Vortech below

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1332421&postcount=56

There are many other examples these are the ones I have listed in this thread back in the first 6 pages.

There is a really good example of a Paxton or Vortech tuned by Ken B, that has a flatline that looks exactly like mine.

 

[SolarFlare]

I thought zachree went much higher than 650whp. Wonder how it did after turning it up.

If mine flatlined so be it, I'll just drop the shift points.

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