Sponsored

Preferred combo for autox street class?

Steve68Cougar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
134
Reaction score
178
Location
KS
Vehicle(s)
'68 Cougar, '08 Mustang Bullitt, '18 Mustang RS2
I'm looking at getting an S550 as a daily driver, autocrosser and occasional HPDE car. I'd like something I can keep Stock legal for autocrossing and still have some fun out on the track. I've done a fair amount of reading through some of the other threads, and it's looking like an '18+ GT with PP1 might be a good option. One other option I'd like to look at is a '19/'20 Bullitt. I had initially thought a PP2 might be a fun option, but it puts it in the same class as a GT350. Where do those two stack up against each other on an autocross course? My local courses are usually set up by Miata/Mini drivers, so things are usually pretty tight. I know Mustangs in general aren't particularly competitive on a national scale, but I'm not getting a BMW or Camaro. I'd just like to get a decent S550. Right now my first choice would be to get a '19 Bullitt, but if something is significantly better (and possibly cheaper) then I'd be interested to hear what that might be. My one real requirement is that it's got to be a manual transmission. As a side note, has there been any discussion as to where a Mach 1 might end up classification wise? My first guess is BS with the GT350 and PP2, but that's just a guess.
Sponsored

 

Dana Pants

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Threads
10
Messages
948
Reaction score
950
Location
Burlington MA
First Name
Dana
Vehicle(s)
2018 GT PP1
2021 is a throw away year and I expect anything less than a PP2 to get absolutely buried in 2022. Based on that, I recommend getting minimum a PP2 and being prepared to compete against the camaro ss 1LE.
 

NightmareMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Threads
41
Messages
5,623
Reaction score
4,642
Location
Austin
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT PP
Vehicle Showcase
1
The GT and Bullitt are in FS, the GT350 and PP2 are in BS, and the GT500/GT350R are in SS

If you want a Bullitt , get a Bullitt . It won't be much more or less competitive than the GT in FS. Since the Mustangs aren't competitive on a national level in FS currently, I'd focus on getting what will make you happy.

No solid idea for the Mach 1, but my guess is that it may indeed go to BS like the PP2 since its got 10.5/11" wheels, at least for the first year. Who knows what they'll move around in a year or two, the BS mustangs may go to FS eventually.

Since you can change dampers and one swaybar in FS, the main performance difference between the FS mustangs and the BS mustangs comes from the wider wheels/tires on the BS cars. Ford doesn't actually spec that much of a spring or swaybar rate difference until you get up to the GT350R.
 
OP
OP
Steve68Cougar

Steve68Cougar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
134
Reaction score
178
Location
KS
Vehicle(s)
'68 Cougar, '08 Mustang Bullitt, '18 Mustang RS2
The GT and Bullitt are in FS, the GT350 and PP2 are in BS, and the GT500/GT350R are in SS

If you want a Bullitt , get a Bullitt . It won't be much more or less competitive than the GT in FS. Since the Mustangs aren't competitive on a national level in FS currently, I'd focus on getting what will make you happy.

No solid idea for the Mach 1, but my guess is that it may indeed go to BS like the PP2 since its got 10.5/11" wheels, at least for the first year. Who knows what they'll move around in a year or two, the BS mustangs may go to FS eventually.

Since you can change dampers and one swaybar in FS, the main performance difference between the FS mustangs and the BS mustangs comes from the wider wheels/tires on the BS cars. Ford doesn't actually spec that much of a spring or swaybar rate difference until you get up to the GT350R.
Thanks for the replies. This is pretty much the answer I was expecting to hear, but thought I would ask anyway. My current car is an '08 Bullitt that ends up in CAM-C due to the suspension work I've done to it (FR3A plus a few odds and ends). By going to an FS legal car I can at least see where my driving is rather than having to factor in how underprepared my car is for the class. I'll most likely try to find a '19 Bullitt, but I really like Royal Crimson, so an '18 GT with PP1 might be a possibility, too.

One other somewhat off topic question - would the Bullitt/PP1 rims work for autocrossing on my '08? From what I understand they will bolt up, but is the fit good enough for the rigors of autocross/track? I still enjoy the '08, and it might be fun to take it out every once in a while if I've got some good tires for it.
 

Littleredd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
105
Reaction score
154
Location
Las Vegas, NV
First Name
Casey
Vehicle(s)
2020 Mustang GT W/PP2
No solid idea for the Mach 1, but my guess is that it may indeed go to BS like the PP2 since its got 10.5/11" wheels, at least for the first year. Who knows what they'll move around in a year or two, the BS mustangs may go to FS eventually.
I agree with everything you said, and wanted to add that it is not just the size, it is also the OEM tires that come on the PP2. I imagine they banned the SC2s from CAM-C for a reason...

On paper (as far as I can tell...), the difference in the Mach 1 and the PP2 is the transmission and oil/diff coolers that the PP2 did not get. Also a 20 HP boost with the Bullitt setup as well. The cars share the magneride shocks.
 

Sponsored

lizardman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Threads
4
Messages
54
Reaction score
14
Location
KY
First Name
AL
Vehicle(s)
15 GTPP
Vehicle Showcase
1
A friend of mine has an FS mustang with Koni Shocks and a Sam Strano Rear Bar and routinely Kicks my ass on the small courses. Start there. I don't understand how it works. But it does. She has much more talent than I do. Find the people that kick your ass and make friends with them.
 

Grintch

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Threads
15
Messages
1,892
Reaction score
792
Location
Hunstville
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT PP
I agree with everything you said, and wanted to add that it is not just the size, it is also the OEM tires that come on the PP2. I imagine they banned the SC2s from CAM-C for a reason...
Because 180 treadwear is < the required 200 treadwear. Which is why you can't run them in Street or Street Prepared either.
 

kz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Threads
58
Messages
4,102
Reaction score
2,399
Location
West Chester, OH
Vehicle(s)
Mustangs & F150
A friend of mine has an FS mustang with Koni Shocks and a Sam Strano Rear Bar and routinely Kicks my ass on the small courses. Start there. I don't understand how it works. But it does. She has much more talent than I do. Find the people that kick your ass and make friends with them.
She has been doing it for 15+ years... And simply is a good driver.
I wouldn't use word "talent" (although Cindy is without a doubt talented driver) because it's n easy way out (someone has more talent that I do). It's constant work to improve as a driver - easier for some, less easy for others.

Btw - Strano hasn't been selling his bar for Mustangs for quite a few years now.

I'll second what Dana wrote - I don't see how with current FS participation levels nationally (which are ridiculously low) , PP2/GT350/1LE isn't going to get dropped to FS next year.
 
OP
OP
Steve68Cougar

Steve68Cougar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
134
Reaction score
178
Location
KS
Vehicle(s)
'68 Cougar, '08 Mustang Bullitt, '18 Mustang RS2
Thanks for the replies. I've been doing some contemplating and may hold off until later this year to dive into a new(er) car. Hopefully they'll have the Mach 1 classified by then and maybe they'll look at dropping some of the others down to FS (for 2022?). That leaves me with a relatively mild '08 Bullitt to run in CAM-C. I'm not ready to start cutting on the car to fit bigger tires on it, but would like to go as wide as I can. It would be nice to get a set of rims that would work both on my current car and a future S550. From what I've seen, 18/19 x 10's work relatively easily, but am wondering if I can stretch it to 18/19 x 11. I'd like to do a square setup, so I'm sure it would take (gulp) spacers on the front to get them on, if it's actually possible. I've been contemplating RE71R in either 285 or 305. With my FR3A adjustable suspension kit, I'm thinking the 305/30-19 setup may be a bit too wide. One plus for the 285/40-19 is that my gearing would be pretty close to what I have now. I sometimes hit the top of 2nd, so I'm not sure I want to gear it down much from where I'm at now. I haven't heard of anyone running my particular setup with 19x11 rims and 305/30-19 tires, so it may be that it's because it takes more/different parts to do that. From what I've seen, I assume pretty much anything that works on my '08 will work on an S550.
 

NightmareMoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Threads
41
Messages
5,623
Reaction score
4,642
Location
Austin
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT PP
Vehicle Showcase
1
Thanks for the replies. I've been doing some contemplating and may hold off until later this year to dive into a new(er) car. Hopefully they'll have the Mach 1 classified by then and maybe they'll look at dropping some of the others down to FS (for 2022?). That leaves me with a relatively mild '08 Bullitt to run in CAM-C. I'm not ready to start cutting on the car to fit bigger tires on it, but would like to go as wide as I can. It would be nice to get a set of rims that would work both on my current car and a future S550. From what I've seen, 18/19 x 10's work relatively easily, but am wondering if I can stretch it to 18/19 x 11. I'd like to do a square setup, so I'm sure it would take (gulp) spacers on the front to get them on, if it's actually possible. I've been contemplating RE71R in either 285 or 305. With my FR3A adjustable suspension kit, I'm thinking the 305/30-19 setup may be a bit too wide. One plus for the 285/40-19 is that my gearing would be pretty close to what I have now. I sometimes hit the top of 2nd, so I'm not sure I want to gear it down much from where I'm at now. I haven't heard of anyone running my particular setup with 19x11 rims and 305/30-19 tires, so it may be that it's because it takes more/different parts to do that. From what I've seen, I assume pretty much anything that works on my '08 will work on an S550.
You can do 18/19x11s with the same square offsets for both generations (pretty sure). Yes you'll need spacers to run equal wheels on all 4 corners, but you can run extended studs with slip on spacers (a perfectly acceptable option) and avoid the terrible bolt on spacers. There's a thread or 6 in the Wheels and Tires or Suspension forum for that if you do a search about fitting square 19x11s with 305s. Its more common than you realize.

Typically you're looking at a 285/35R19 on a 10" wheel and not a 285/40. 285/40 is an oddball size without much selection.

Say goodbye to the RE71R, they've been discontinued and the last few 305/30R19s are on closeout right now, but there are some alternatives in a similar performance range.
 

Sponsored
OP
OP
Steve68Cougar

Steve68Cougar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
134
Reaction score
178
Location
KS
Vehicle(s)
'68 Cougar, '08 Mustang Bullitt, '18 Mustang RS2
You can do 18/19x11s with the same square offsets for both generations (pretty sure). Yes you'll need spacers to run equal wheels on all 4 corners, but you can run extended studs with slip on spacers (a perfectly acceptable option) and avoid the terrible bolt on spacers. There's a thread or 6 in the Wheels and Tires or Suspension forum for that if you do a search about fitting square 19x11s with 305s. Its more common than you realize.

Typically you're looking at a 285/35R19 on a 10" wheel and not a 285/40. 285/40 is an oddball size without much selection.

Say goodbye to the RE71R, they've been discontinued and the last few 305/30R19s are on closeout right now, but there are some alternatives in a similar performance range.
I mis-remembered the 35 vs 40 aspect ratio. 35 is what I should have said. I did see quite a bit about S550 setups, but not much on S197s. To me it looked like I would probably have to get caster/camber plates in addition to the long studs and spacers. I missed it if someone was doing it on an S197 without the camber plates.

The discontinuation of the RE71R sounds less than ideal without a replacement. There seems to be conflicting news as to whether the RE71RS will be introduced here or not. I'll have to do some more research on alternatives in appropriate sizes.
 

strengthrehab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Threads
74
Messages
1,181
Reaction score
441
Location
Houston
First Name
Ken
Vehicle(s)
2016 DIB Base GT with PP
Falken RT660 is acceptable and apparently similar to re71R. Also Rivals work, but seem to require different driving style and "feel" different from what I've heard...especially with turn-in which is less crisp.
 

kz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Threads
58
Messages
4,102
Reaction score
2,399
Location
West Chester, OH
Vehicle(s)
Mustangs & F150
As a side note, has there been any discussion as to where a Mach 1 might end up classification wise? My first guess is BS with the GT350 and PP2, but that's just a guess.
No longer need to guess, it ended up in BS as of just released FasTrack.
 
OP
OP
Steve68Cougar

Steve68Cougar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
134
Reaction score
178
Location
KS
Vehicle(s)
'68 Cougar, '08 Mustang Bullitt, '18 Mustang RS2
Well, I sorta strayed from an FS legal car. I found a Royal Crimson Roush Stage 2. That in itself would put it in CAM-C, but it's also got a supercharger on it. I'll probably run it as-is this year and get tires for it later. 700hp will probably have a bit of a learning curve. Should be fun, though.

PXL_20210111_231902135.MP.jpg
Sponsored

 
 




Top