predator 5.2L vs aluminator 5.2L

[Notagain]

If Ford wants to catch a ZL1 1LE on a road course it better pull out every trick in the book and stuff some GT supercar suspension under the GT500.

Magride, Carbon wheels, and more HP wont get it done.

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[SVTSNAKE355]

We’re only last because the 500 isn’t out yet. Ford is releasing one which is good.

If they didn’t then yes, last place.

I also believe it won’t have more power than the dodge and won’t be as fast on a road circuit as the 1LE (hopefully wrong here).

Jamal, Raj, Dave were the heart of Ford performance and gave us a flat plane 8250rpm engine, a carbon fibre flying buttresses super car, a drifting awd hatchback, and a RAPTOR - AT THE SAME TIME.

That is impressive. John Coletti was cool, sure. But he did things one - at - a - time. Think about that.

What I mean by last place is no 4 door car to compete with the fatcat charger, nothing to compete with the trailhawk, or srt trucks.John Coletti built a better motor with the 03-04 COBRA than the motor that's in the 2013 GT500. When building a 2013 GT500, some companies use parts from the 03-04 COBRA.

 

[SVTSNAKE355]

If Ford wants to catch a ZL1 1LE on a road course it better pull out every trick in the book and stuff some GT supercar suspension under the GT500.

Magride, Carbon wheels, and more HP wont get it done.

I think FORD will have no problem beating the zl1,1le on the track.

 

[Hack]

If Ford wants to catch a ZL1 1LE on a road course it better pull out every trick in the book and stuff some GT supercar suspension under the GT500.

Magride, Carbon wheels, and more HP wont get it done.

All they would need is bigger hammer engineering like GM does on the Camaro. Super stiff springs and shocks, sticky tires, aero and a little more power than the Camaro. That is easy to do.

What would be hard is to make a car that's faster plus more fun to drive and more comfortable. I think that's what will happen.

 

[Notagain]

Chassis people..... The 6th gen Camaro Chassis is better and lighter.

Its not just all about HP and suspension.

If Ford can manage to stuff a DCT Transmission and Multimatic suspension under the GT500 Id consider that a decent start.

But again its going to need more than just more HP over the GT350 to beat the ZL1 1LE.

 

[Hack]

Chassis people..... The 6th gen Camaro Chassis is better and lighter.

Its not just all about HP and suspension.

If Ford can manage to stuff a DCT Transmission and Multimatic suspension under the GT500 Id consider that a decent start.

But again its going to need more than just more HP over the GT350 to beat the ZL1 1LE.

Do you have any proof at all that there's something better about the Camaro's chassis? I've never seen that. Just Camaro guys that come on here and say it.

Is the chassis X amount stiffer in some direction compared to the Mustang?

Do you think the slight weight difference between the cars is a big deal?

 

[Notagain]

Do you have any proof at all that there's something better about the Camaro's chassis? I've never seen that. Just Camaro guys that come on here and say it.

Is the chassis X amount stiffer in some direction compared to the Mustang?

Do you think the slight weight difference between the cars is a big deal?

Its out there the Chassis is lighter and stiffer however I habe zero ambiti9n to chase down the info again.

The Camaro has typically been a parts bin whore stealing parts from the Corvette too. The Mustang simply doesnt have that luxury.

 

[Epiphany]

Chassis people..... The 6th gen Camaro Chassis is better and lighter. Its not just all about HP and suspension. If Ford can manage to stuff a DCT Transmission and Multimatic suspension under the GT500 Id consider that a decent start.
But again its going to need more than just more HP over the GT350 to beat the ZL1 1LE.

I hate to admit it but you're right. Hopefully in this game of one-upsmanship Ford can pull it off and stay ahead for at least a model year or two. Chassis-wise though I don't see anything major left in the S550 in terms of lightweighting, etc.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Is the chassis X amount stiffer in some direction compared to the Mustang?

Do you think the slight weight difference between the cars is a big deal?

I own a Cadillac ATS and Mustang GT and the GM Alpha is definitely better.

But for me (and apparently MOST pony car buyers) the chassis is not enough better to offset all the other ways the Mustang is better than the Camaro.

 

[nastang87xx]

Do you have any proof at all that there's something better about the Camaro's chassis? I've never seen that. Just Camaro guys that come on here and say it.

Is the chassis X amount stiffer in some direction compared to the Mustang?

Do you think the slight weight difference between the cars is a big deal?

The Alpha chassis body and suspension uses more aluminum and cross drilling. The actual unibody itself is smaller too if I remember. The S550 unibody is all steel. The Alpha chassis has an aluminum front dash support that took off something like 10lbs or so. I believe the Alpha chassis also has a higher tensile strength material and consequently allowed Chevy to have to use LESS volume of material on the chassis unibody. The Alpha chassis utilizes more cross drilling as well on suspension and subframe parts. It's also not just the chassis and suspension that got the Camaro down in weight. It shrunk in size from the 5th gen. It uses WAY less sheet metal for the body. The SS is actually 2" shorter than the GT350. The pumpkin cover is aluminum, the Mustang's is steel. The LT1 is lighter than the Coyote, 430lbs vs 444lbs without accessories if I remember right. It wasn't just the chassis that helped the Camaro lose weight but many small things that added up.

Now here's the most interesting and probably most easily understandable configuration comparison because the Mustang can weight all sorts of weird things from 3700lbs to 3800+. The SS 1LE weighs 3745lbs. The GT350 weights 3790lbs in Track Pack form. The Base 900A GT350 weighs 3760. That's NOT a whole lot of difference. That's less than an Olympic barbell plate in both forms of the GT350. Take that piece of iron and distribute it all over the SS 1LE in different places here and there and then you kinda see how obsessive Team Camaro got with their weight savings. So is that slight weight difference a big deal? Honestly, probably not to normal drivers. To Randy Pobst or Tommy Kendall? Sure. Frankly it does somewhat bother me not being on the other side of the 37xxlbs spectrum (GT350 guys) but it is what it is.

Another thing to consider too is that the S550 platform was originally supposed to be an all aluminum, or at least close to it, unibody redesign which probably would have slashed aorund 100lbs just in the unibody. The S550 is actually more of an evolution of the S197, not a whole new redesign. Team Mustang did not get the green light to throw the kitchen sink. Dave Pericak was pissed. He had a great argument against the bean counters which I'm surprised actually didn't work. That we're supposed to be touting lightweight modern designs and ideas with fuels savings and we're being told to use a design that was started in 1999 as our base? And unfortunately it does kinda show. All things considered though, for what they got to work with, boy did they milk everything they could out of it.

 

[Notagain]

I own a Cadillac ATS and Mustang GT and the GM Alpha is definitely better.

But for me (and apparently MOST pony car buyers) the chassis is not enough better to offset all the other ways the Mustang is better than the Camaro.

For me it came down to price and aftermarket. The Mustangs aftermarket support is YUUUUUGE compared to the Camaro amd 2nd the Camaro is too damn expensive.

Twice I tried to buy a 6th gen. I can get over the visability issues and smaller back seat but I couldnt justify the price gap when I bought my 2016 or my 2018. When I got the 2016 an comparably equipped 6th gen was 10k more and when the 2016 was totaled the only 2018 6th gens I could find around me in North Dakota were loaded ZL1s at 60k or more.

No thanks Ill take my loaded 2018 A10 Premium package car for 36k OTD. that I just got in Sept.

 

[Notagain]

If you really want to go off the deep end read this!!!

https://svtperformance.com/threads/...use-of-the-gt350s-fpc-5-2l-voodoo-v8.1166797/

We could have had a 9k rpm cross plane crank coyote and the FPC 5.2 Voodoo engine cost a fuck ton of money in development.

Was it really worth it? Read the article and you try decide.

As much as I love the Voodoo the money and research and more importantly the compromises that had to be made to make it happen are absolutely astounding!!

The more I think about it the more the Voodoo looks more like an engineering ego stroke and very little after that!

 

[nastang87xx]

The more I think about it the more the Voodoo looks more like an engineering ego stroke and very little after that!

If I were being SUPER troll-like and/or optimistic, maybe it was indeed an engineering exercise with possible things to come. Ford wouldn't be the first OEM to do something and later people think, "...but why?!"

Regardless, I still really like the Voodoo.

EDIT/ADDITION: I think this also brings up a good point too where in the end, whether an engine has a flat plane, cross plane, biplane, gay plane, or straight plane crank, an engine is still an air pump and what ultimately decides the fate of an engine's output is airflow efficiency, timing, and combustion management.

 

[Epiphany]

Even engines are self-identifying now? Crikey, the end is certainly near.

 

[nastang87xx]

Even engines are self-identifying now? Crikey, the end is certainly near.

Just wait until they go gender fluid................wait...hold on a sec. Yeah that might cause some balance issues in the crank.

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