PP2 OWNER EXPERIENCES - RAVES/QUIRKS

[Porsche Dude]

Just an FYI ... Recently my 2018 PP2 spent the good part of a day on Steeda's chassis dyno. With a Borla S-type exhaust system (+ Borla resonator), Steeda CAI (555-3228), throttle body spacer (555-3225) & tune, the end result was (+/-) 460 HP & 420 lb/ft ... at the rear wheels!!! Obviously, for those of you who track your Mustang, a less restrictive exhaust system & higher octane race gas would net you even more, but I was merely interested being mo' bettah than the current Bullitt & upcoming Mach 1.

The figures quoted above put the PP2 in the same ball park as the GT350 in terms of RWHP. Car & Driver (C&D) just recently had a GT350 v. PP2 track comparison w/the PP2 beating the GT350 in cornering & braking ... due to the larger wheel/tire package. The GT350 did have better OA lap times due to 66 more HP. With the above mentioned power increase, the only advantage the (unmodified) GT350 has is greater laps run due to the trans & diff coolers. Like I said, just an FYI.

One final note regarding your comment about the great value of a PP2 ... that is, w/o a doubt, going to be the S550 Mustang to look for when they start hitting the used car market. You get the great PP2 package w/out the $5,000 (or whatever) surcharge for the Shelby/Bullitt/Mach 1 badging ("We don't need no stinkin' badges!!!"). And, unlike the above mentioned trifecta, you won't take a financial hit for any (intelligent) mods done to the car.

I had mine on a dyno with Borla, the rear diff cooler but stock otherwise, and it pulled 449 at the rear wheels. We did this to set the base line of the car and plan upgrades that will improve the car on the track. One interesting thing to note, my shop had to replace the CPU in my car and that meant extracting the programs from the current CPU and putting them into the new processor, and my tech discovered a “chip” in there from the factory, which was unexpected. I love this car and I believe it will be the first vehicle that I buyout at the end of the lease.

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[Porsche Dude]

I agree, Norm.
I suspect that Ford didn't want to piss off the GT350 owners by putting out a "lesser" Mustang that could keep up with the Shelby for an entire track day.

But we can, and some Shelby drivers are not happy.

 

[Ron]

"So who/what was Ford actually targeting the PP2 for, if they were going to knowingly cripple it for road course work? Certainly not the straight-line crowd, w/305 series street/track tires at all four corners & unique track-inspired calibrations for all sorts of things from MagneRide to the EPAS."

You are misinterpreting the meaning of 'track inspired'. You see it as meaning the PP2 package is made for the race track when, in reality, it merely means that the PP2 upgrades were developed on the race track ... BIG difference!!! Disc brakes & aerodynamics are also 'track inspired'. Does that mean that they should never be applied to street cars? The 5.0L already rec'd an upgrade in 2018, so suspension & braking seemed like a natural upgrade for the PP2 package. As for the MagneRide, it can be programmed for Baja to Mulsanne & everything in between. And it was already on the GT350 ... so w/just a bit of cheap electronic tweaking, it became a financial no-brainer.

"Seems a better choice would have been to include the diff & possibly transmission cooler as a separate option w/in PP2. Maybe package the cooling w/the PSC2 tires & put the "base" PP2 on PS4S tires of the same size ... make it the buyer's choice to be only a little hardcore about cornering & handling or seriously so."

The diff cooler is an option thru Ford Performance Parts. The trans cooler (which utilizes an internal pump) would be an issue due to the GT350 using the Tremec transmission v. the GT's Getrag unit. BTW, making options is an extremely expensive proposition for any manufacturer. From merely creating a p/n ($10,000 back in the 1980s) to physically storing inventory (warehouse bin/rack/floor space is NOT cheap ... & it's finite). This is why, w/the possible exception of the wheels, virtually everything in the PP2 package is off the shelf (brakes, radiator & chassis bracing), slightly modified OE (MagneRide) or cheaply sourced thru an OE vendor (stabilizer bars & springs).

 

[Ron]

"If Ford was targeting the PP2 for some random dude who enjoys driving twisty roads, then they nailed the target w/me."

Ditto on this end. Simply put, the PP2 option was the ONLY reason that I purchased a new Mustang!!! And it's the ONLY OE option on the car. I did install Steeda chassis bracing to enhance the PP2 upgrades tho. Oh, yeah, I also upgraded the rear tires to 325/30x19.

 

[Troutwrangler]

But we can, and some Shelby drivers are not happy.

I live vicariously through you, Porsche Dude, with all of your track time in your PP2.
I was just wanting to do a little autocrossing with mine this past summer, but the COVID had that all messed up in Central Oregon.
I appreciate your track perspective and real world experience that you bring to this forum.

 

[Troutwrangler]

But we can, and some Shelby drivers are not happy.

I'm sure!
My buddy that bought his Shelby just before I got my PP2 was pissed off that I had 305s on front and he "only" had 295s....
That's all I heard about for the first couple of months.

 

[Troutwrangler]

Ditto on this end. Simply put, the PP2 option was the ONLY reason that I purchased a new Mustang!!! And it's the ONLY OE option on the car. I did install Steeda chassis bracing to enhance the PP2 upgrades tho. Oh, yeah, I also upgraded the rear tires to 325/30x19.

Same scenario here, Ron.
Very, very long story short, we had some changes in hobbies in our life and my wife was really hammering me to buy a new Mustang for several months (no lie, and yes, she's that cool). I was lukewarm to anything other than the Shelby which was out of our comfort zone financially (Shelby's in my area were selling for sticker plus $15,000 ADM at the time).
I got an email from Ford on October 23, 2017... it was the press release for the PP2, with the Race Red PP2 pictured on it.
I printed off the email and handed it to my wife and said "I'm in. We're buying one of these."

Mine is lightly optioned as well...PP2 package and Recaro seats.
I haven't done any mods to the car other than Xpel PPF on parts of it.

I am seriously considering the 325/30/19 tires for the rears.
I got a bad front end alignment from the factory and the fronts are severely worn on the inside edges at 8,300 miles. I'm planning to put the rear 305's on front to run the rest of the life out of them and have 325's installed on the rear.

Do you have any regrets in regards to the 325s on the rear?

 

[Ron]

"Mine is lightly optioned as well ... PP2 & Recaro seats. I am seriously considering the 325/30x19 tires for the rears. I'm planning to put the rear 305's on front to run the rest of the life out of them & have 325's installed on the rear. Do you have any regrets in regards to the 325s on the rear?"

My sons got me a pair of Sparco seats for my '98 GT, so I initially looked at the Recaro option for the 2019 GT. However, the 6-way power adjustment + lumbar support on the OE seats was the deciding factor. I have put 33k miles on the car in two (2) years so driver comfort is paramount. As for the 325 tires on the rear, I saw the option mentioned somewhere on this site so I won't take any credit for the R&D. Aside from the obvious increased grip, it visually fills out the wheel wells from the backside & most certainly takes away the front 'offset issue' that seems to really fluff the feathers of a number of PP2 owners. A mild caveat here ... the slightly taller 325 tires will alter your speedo about 2%. So when cruising Highways 20 or 97 @ 200 mph, the State Trooper can only site you for a mere 196 mph!!! The only other exterior items I have messed with is to have the chrome (5.0 & GT) emblems painted the same color as the wheels ('Dark Tarnish') & the installation of the Bullitt grille (upper & lower). As the color is Magnetic, the entire effect allows me to 'fly under the radar' for the most part.

 

[Troutwrangler]

My sons got me a pair of Sparco seats for my '98 GT, so I initially looked at the Recaro option for the 2019 GT. However, the 6-way power adjustment + lumbar support on the OE seats was the deciding factor. I have put 33k miles on the car in two (2) years so driver comfort is paramount. As for the 325 tires on the rear, I saw the option mentioned somewhere on this site so I won't take any credit for the R&D. Aside from the obvious increased grip, it visually fills out the wheel wells from the backside & most certainly takes away the front 'offset issue' that seems to really fluff the feathers of a number of PP2 owners. A mild caveat here ... the slightly taller 325 tires will alter your speedo about 2%. So when cruising Highways 20 or 97 @ 200 mph, the State Trooper can only site you for a mere 196 mph!!! The only other exterior items I have messed with is to have the chrome (5.0 & GT) emblems painted the same color as the wheels ('Dark Tarnish') & the installation of the Bullitt grille (upper & lower). As the color is Magnetic, the entire effect allows me to 'fly under the radar' for the most part.

Sounds good!
I'm going to try either 315s or 325s on the rear.
Good to know about the speedometer offset....I've got it committed to memory.....subtract 4 at 200!! .... For when I'm dodging RV traffic on 97 or open range on 20....
You must have been through Central Oregon a time or two..

My "speed limiter" is usually sitting in the passenger seat with me and her alarm is set at about 75-80....

I'll look at pictures of your ride this evening. You've done some nice touches to it from your desciption...
I'm washing vehicles right now before everything freezes back up in an hour.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

A 325 is a ton of tire for an 11" wheel. I ran a 335 on a 12" CCW wheel on my Vette, and even that tire had a recommendation for a 12.5"wheel.

I run - not unlike a PP2 - a 305 on my rear 11" wheel (though a 5mm taller sidewall), so a 305/35-20, it looks like the PP2 wheel is an ET48 offset, so a couple of mm more "out" vs my ET50, I guess with the 30 series and a 19" tire, it would clear the fenders OK (assuming @Ron hasn't had any scrubbing issues).

 

[Ron]

"I'm going to try either 315s or 325s on the rear."

The 325 is approved for an 11-12 inch rim. IMHO, going from 305 to 315 is hardly worth the cost. Just sayin' ...

"You must have been thru Central Oregon a time or two."

While raised in SoCal, I had cousins in Olympia (WA) & Coos Bay (OR). I had my 1st dune buggy ride in 1960 [???] on the beach in Coos Bay. Little did I know that, less than 20 years later, I be competing in the Baja 1000. And my Coos Bay cousin also taught me how to catch & ride a moving freight train. Good times!!!

"My 'speed limiter' is usually sitting in the passenger seat w/me & her alarm is set at about 75-80."

 

[Ron]

"A 325 is a ton of tire for an 11" wheel."

The 325/30x19 specified rim width is 11-12 inches. And I am sure that you understand that not all 11" rims are equal as offset is going to be critical here. You might want to find out what the 11" PP2 rim (v. your rim) offset is before proceeding.

"I run - not unlike a PP2 - a 305 on my rear 11" wheel (tho a 5mm taller sidewall), so a 305/35x20, it looks like the PP2 wheel is an ET48 offset, so a couple of mm more "out" vs my ET50, I guess with the 30 series & a 19" tire, it would clear the fenders OK (assuming @Ron hasn't had any scrubbing issues)."

And, no, I have zero issues w/clearance. However, w/that said, Ford Performance makes the following statement in their 2020 catalog regarding 10.5 & 11 inch PP2 wheels ... "The [10.5 & 11 inch rims] are intended for use on vehicles originally equipped w/the Performance Pack Level 2 option. Use on other vehicles may result in tire-to-body/chassis clearance issues." With that said, I have also heard (but never confirmed) that there are different fenders on the PP2. Whether it's just the front or front & rear, I do not know. I keep meaning to verify it thru the Ford dealer, but just don't go down there that often. Anybody out there w/real facts & not just bathroom wall rumors, please step up here.

 

[mustang5o]

So who/what was Ford actually targeting the PP2 for, if they were going to knowingly cripple it for road course work? Certainly not the straight-line crowd, with 305-wide streetable track/competition tires at all four corners and unique track-inspired calibrations for all sorts of things from Magneride to the EPAS.

Seems a better choice would have been to include the diff and possibly transmission cooling as a separate option within PP2. Maybe package the cooling with the PSC2 tires and put the "base" PP2 on PS4S tires of the same size . . . make it the buyer's choice to be only a little hardcore about cornering & handling or seriously so.


Norm

One for autocrossers and the more serious kit for track junkies.

FYI, there's a pretty neat set of a photos a guy took, basically the exact same GT PP1, brand new, side-by-side, one with MR, one without, the one with definitely had notably less fender gap.

I noticed this right away with my MR car, my aftermarket 20" setup looks like it did with my previous (non-MR car) on lowering springs. As such, I've avoided lowering it, which is usually something I do to most of the cars I've owned.

It's not documented, but it sure as hell __looks__ lower

If you want to lower it look at M5300W Magenride lowering springs. A little firmer ride and maybe 3/4" drop.

But we can, and some Shelby drivers are not happy.

Well, we can...maybe for a few hot laps. On a warm summer day we may not make it all day without the diff throwing warnings or going into limp mode.

 

[Ron]

"So who/what was Ford actually targeting the PP2 for, if they were going to knowingly cripple it for road course work?"

The following quote is from Tom Barnes (Mustang's vehicle engineering manager) when asked why the GT350 trans & diff oil coolers were not part of the PP2 package: "We obviously knew that we could do that, but I'd just say that we didn't want to go there. And there are a lot of different reasons why. This [the PP2] is sandwiched between the GT350 & the PP1. If you start to add those coolers, you add complexity, engineering, weight & cost. In the end, we didn't want to go that full track capability. We thought this was a good place." The magazine (R&T / August 2018) goes on to say that "The aim of this passion project was to hone the ultimate street Mustang from a car they had already spent time developing."

In addition to the August 2018 copy of R&T (above quotes), you might look up the following online ... October 2018 R&T (What happens when you let engineers tinker) & January 2020 C&D (PP2 v. GT350).

 

[Silver Bullitt]

And, no, I have zero issues w/clearance. However, w/that said, Ford Performance makes the following statement in their 2020 catalog regarding 10.5 & 11 inch PP2 wheels ... "The [10.5 & 11 inch rims] are intended for use on vehicles originally equipped w/the Performance Pack Level 2 option. Use on other vehicles may result in tire-to-body/chassis clearance issues." With that said, I have also heard (but never confirmed) that there are different fenders on the PP2. Whether it's just the front or front & rear, I do not know. I keep meaning to verify it thru the Ford dealer, but just don't go down there that often. Anybody out there w/real facts & not just bathroom wall rumors, please step up here.

The front fender liners are unique to the PP2. I’m not aware of any differences in the rear.

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