PP2 Cooling Upgrades? Per criticism…

[Arknsawchuck]

Because they don't need to dummy proof a 120hp FWD econobox. But they do need to dummy proof a 650hp RWD car.



Because those are the cars most likely to be driven aggressive and/or on track. More people take corvettes and vipers and 911s to the track then corollas. And track oriented cars usually have more power than econoboxes, thus they need more dummying for the average driver.

You do know the base, PP1 and premium S550 cars have the same HP as the PP2, and close enough to the Mach1 that it doesn't matter, hell, enough pretty close to the GT350. The new GT500 is the only one that has HP close to what you said and they are staggered. Anyway, I'm done with this topic, you run what you want is what it all comes down to.

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[Arknsawchuck]

sure, I was running 255/275 setup for a year before I decided to move to 305 square. not a deal breaker, but also far from being best possible option

and spend more money after a bit of time to actually do it properly? where are the cost savings in that?

look, a track is just asphalt paved road, you can run a tricycle. the question here is what is the better choice, not what is minimally needed to drive around.

Sure whatever

it's gonna take a set of 305 tires, FP track suspension package and camber plates. that's all you need to get better than PP2 level. without the tires, you won't get there.

 

[plresultsman]

Soooooooo back to cooling, kids! No biting, kicking or punching below the belt!

 

[luc]

You do know the base, PP1 and premium S550 cars have the same HP as the PP2, and close enough to the Mach1 that it doesn't matter, hell, enough pretty close to the GT350. The new GT500 is the only one that has HP close to what you said and they are staggered. Anyway, I'm done with this topic, you run what you want is what it all comes down to.

Why don’t we see 700/800 hp Dodge Challenger or chargers at open track events?
Because it’s all about handling, not horsepower…
Way before hp you need brakes and handling to go fast on a track. Base and gt don’t have either one
Hopefully for you, you are only making those arguments because you like to argue, not because you believe them

 

[Arknsawchuck]

Why don’t we see 700/800 hp Dodge Challenger or chargers at open track events?
Because it’s all about handling, not horsepower…
Way before hp you need brakes and handling to go fast on a track. Base and gt don’t have either one
Hopefully for you, you are only making those arguments because you like to argue, not because you believe them

The base and GT have the same horse power as the rest of the S550 GT cars. I'm not arguing that you need horse power, and I agree that handling is much more important. I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. It was someone else that stated you need 650 hp to run track.

 

[Howitzer]

I'm not disagreeing with understeer vs oversteer issues, I'm just questioning the whole staggered is for drag or show and squared is the only track setup. If ford is dummy proofing cars then why aren't base model cars staggered, and why only the ones purpose built for track use staggered? There's way more crashes on the street than on the track. Why didn't they "dummy proof" the regular cars too?

To be fair...for the base model...they may be a square setup but it's only 235 width and that's purely to cut costs. If they were to do staggered, they'd just cut the front width even more and make it even more ridiculous. I can't believe they still get away with sending those out with those kind of tires. If you don't want any grip though, that's the way to go. The original tires/rims were the first thing to go for me, along with the terrible shocks/struts.

Also...I don't think staggered setups alone are bad. But...I think the point is that if you're going to go aftermarket, you may as well go as big as you can in front and rear. A smaller front tire will help absolutely nothing when you can fit the same size tire on the front as you have in the rear. Other factors such as associated costs and tire choices (as well as your goal for the car) of course can play a role for just how wide you go. But as ewheels said, if ultimate grip is the goal, absolutely you should be going as wide as possible. And being able to actually rotate your tires is great.

Unsure how this devolved so much in a thread originally about cooling though?

 

[plresultsman]

To be fair...for the base model...they may be a square setup but it's only 235 width and that's purely to cut costs. If they were to do staggered, they'd just cut the front width even more and make it even more ridiculous. I can't believe they still get away with sending those out with those kind of tires. If you don't want any grip though, that's the way to go. The original tires/rims were the first thing to go for me, along with the terrible shocks/struts.

Also...I don't think staggered setups alone are bad. But...I think the point is that if you're going to go aftermarket, you may as well go as big as you can in front and rear. A smaller front tire will help absolutely nothing when you can fit the same size tire on the front as you have in the rear. Other factors such as associated costs and tire choices (as well as your goal for the car) of course can play a role for just how wide you go. But as ewheels said, if ultimate grip is the goal, absolutely you should be going as wide as possible. And being able to actually rotate your tires is great.

Unsure how this devolved so much in a thread originally about cooling though?

Thank you! I do appreciate all the insights, even if the thread wandered off cooling. This is going to be my first year doing DE, HPDE and some track days.

 

[Arknsawchuck]

To be fair...for the base model...they may be a square setup but it's only 235 width and that's purely to cut costs. If they were to do staggered, they'd just cut the front width even more and make it even more ridiculous. I can't believe they still get away with sending those out with those kind of tires. If you don't want any grip though, that's the way to go. The original tires/rims were the first thing to go for me, along with the terrible shocks/struts.

Also...I don't think staggered setups alone are bad. But...I think the point is that if you're going to go aftermarket, you may as well go as big as you can in front and rear. A smaller front tire will help absolutely nothing when you can fit the same size tire on the front as you have in the rear. Other factors such as associated costs and tire choices (as well as your goal for the car) of course can play a role for just how wide you go. But as ewheels said, if ultimate grip is the goal, absolutely you should be going as wide as possible. And being able to actually rotate your tires is great.

Unsure how this devolved so much in a thread originally about cooling though?

Yeah, I was wondering how all this branched from cooling as well. If I recall correctly for some reason a statement was made that staggered is only for drag cars and show cars and I listed all the factory cars built with track in mind that are staggered and it went crazy from there.
I’m with you, I have no idea why ford puts these cars out with 235 tires. They are just short of useless, bordering on dangerous.

 

[luc]

Yeah, I was wondering how all this branched from cooling as well. If I recall correctly for some reason a statement was made that staggered is only for drag cars and show cars and I listed all the factory cars built with track in mind that are staggered and it went crazy from there.
I’m with you, I have no idea why ford puts these cars out with 235 tires. They are just short of useless, bordering on dangerous.

You must be hard of hearing, it has been explained to you many times by people that track their car why they came staggered from the factory and that nobody in their right mind track those cars with the factory staggered sizes…. Is that really that hard to comprehend????
Seriously……

 

[tosha]

Yeah, I was wondering how all this branched from cooling as well. If I recall correctly for some reason a statement was made that staggered is only for drag cars and show cars and I listed all the factory cars built with track in mind that are staggered and it went crazy from there.

you just can't let it go, and you wonder how it all keeps branching, are you serious?

 

[Arknsawchuck]

You must be hard of hearing, it has been explained to you many times by people that track their car why they came staggered from the factory and that nobody in their right mind track those cars with the factory staggered sizes…. Is that really that hard to comprehend????
Seriously……

God grief, give it a rest. i don’t need more comments from an internet track expert. There’s a long sit of actual race cars with staggered setups. Why you just run what you want and move on. my whole point is that staggered isn’t just for drag cars.

 

[Arknsawchuck]

you just can't let it go, and you wonder how it all keeps branching, are you serious?

I didn’t even mention it and damn sure didn’t to you. Why don’t you just let it go.

 

[tosha]

I didn’t even mention it and damn sure didn’t to you. Why don’t you just let it go.

didn't mention what? sorry, I'm confused.

 

[luc]

God grief, give it a rest. i don’t need more comments from an internet track expert. There’s a long sit of actual race cars with staggered setups. Why you just run what you want and move on. my whole point is that staggered isn’t just for drag cars.

Your whole point is that you know crap about car handling and physics
Otherwise you would understand what weight distribution is and why the side that weight the most need the bigger tires, why do you think that Porsche have staggered tires? Rear engine = more weight on the back
Anyhow, I’m wasting my time

 

[Arknsawchuck]

Your whole point is that you know crap about car handling.

Well it seems neither does LMR, his is copied right off their sight. Notice they say it can improve handle and reduce under steer. So go suck on that for a while.

WHAT IS A STAGGERED WHEEL AND TIRE SETUP?
Mustangs have always been known to be an affordable vehicle to get some of the most impressive performance numbers that money can buy. Many enthusiasts often upgrade their Mustang with staggered wheels and tires to improve both the performance and looks of their car. Unfortunately, staggered wheels and tires can be a pretty intimidating change for some, but it doesn't have to be.

A staggered wheel and tire setup is when you have different-width wheels on your car, with the two wider wheels at the back of the car. This staggered setup is often used on sports cars like the popular Ford Mustang GT and is meant to enhance the driving experience. Depending on what you use your car for, staggered wheels and tires can improve traction and power transfer or reduce the understeer and rotational mass of your car.

PROS OF STAGGERED WHEELS AND TIRES
The staggered wheel and tire setup have several pros with a popular improvement being handling. Another pro is that staggered setups arguably look more appealing than squared setups. Additionally, staggered wheel and tire setups can provide more traction and power transfer to the ground.

BENEFITS

• Improved handling.
• Looks more aggressive than squared setups.
• More traction and power transfer to the ground.

CONS OF STAGGERED WHEELS AND TIRES
One of the main cons of staggered wheel and tire setups is that they can be more expensive than squared setups. The staggered wheel and tire setup will also eliminate the ability to rotate your tires in a normal fashion. With two different-sized tires on each side, you will not be able to rotate your tires from the front to the back.

DISADVANTAGES

• More difficult to rotate tires.
• Are usually more expensive and heavier.

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