Power Pack 2 pinging on 91...now what?

[Meatball]

Didn't get any logs. Dyno operator and tech both heard and decided to shut it down.



No oil seperator, just stock aside from PP2.



So what would the noise be then? I tested it myself next to a barrier, gave it throttle at the RPM they said it was doing it and it sounded like shaking a quarter in a jar.



I just filled up with 94 Chevron, ethanol free. I had about 30-35% left of Shell 91 and topped off with 94 Chevron. I don't know how long it takes to adjust, but I swear it felt more responsive in initial tip in and I couldn't make the rattle sound come back. Hard to believe it would be solved so quickly though!



I have 94, filled up with it with some 91 left so maybe 92.5 octane now? haha

They didn't log the car to see what was happening, this was all audible. But if I am still having problems on 94 they said they could give it a custom tune to actually work with 91 and they said they'd have no issues reusing the Ford CAI and TB that came with the PP2

Be v careful with that. The 87mm tb isn’t simple to tune, and frankly if you called in the warranty I’d stick with the FP tune. They’re rather aggressive with timing but it should be a safe tune, it’s the tune for a warrantied engine.

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[Meatball]

Just fill up with 94 from now on. The price difference vs 91 is marginal on its best day and then you'll have some good headroom and you'll get the full timing that's coded into the tune.

I agree with this. Also, consider how very lucky you are to have 94 available. I’d live only on 94 if I could.

 

[Dom1232]

Be v careful with that. The 87mm tb isn’t simple to tune, and frankly if you called in the warranty I’d stick with the FP tune. They’re rather aggressive with timing but it should be a safe tune, it’s the tune for a warrantied engine.

I agree with this. A lot of complaints of surging, rough idle, and hunting RPMs even with reputable tuners. Many people use the adapter and stick with stock TB not seeing a huge benefit in gains anyways

 

[thelostotter]

Didn't get any logs. Dyno operator and tech both heard and decided to shut it down.



No oil seperator, just stock aside from PP2.



So what would the noise be then? I tested it myself next to a barrier, gave it throttle at the RPM they said it was doing it and it sounded like shaking a quarter in a jar.



I just filled up with 94 Chevron, ethanol free. I had about 30-35% left of Shell 91 and topped off with 94 Chevron. I don't know how long it takes to adjust, but I swear it felt more responsive in initial tip in and I couldn't make the rattle sound come back. Hard to believe it would be solved so quickly though!



I have 94, filled up with it with some 91 left so maybe 92.5 octane now? haha

They didn't log the car to see what was happening, this was all audible. But if I am still having problems on 94 they said they could give it a custom tune to actually work with 91 and they said they'd have no issues reusing the Ford CAI and TB that came with the PP2

OP, don't listen to these guys telling you that the the shop doesn't know what they are talking about. If you search on this forum you will find a number of people who have had pinging problems with this tune on 91 octane, myself included. It is very audible if you are next to a concrete barrier like on a freeway onramp.

If you have the ability to run 94 octane, just do that, sounds like you've already tried and it solved you issue. The tune will take advantage of the additional knock resistance which it appears like you noticed. I am jealous since 91 is the most I have here in AZ unless I jump to race fuel which I now do for track days.

Do listen to the other guys about the tuning issues of the 87mm throttle body. I've had two tunes from different vendors and they got it close, but Ford's calibration is definitely better. It's noticeable on the track when you are trying to gradually roll on the throttle coming out of a corner.

 

[Chomorro]

OP, don't listen to these guys telling you that the the shop doesn't know what they are talking about. If you search on this forum you will find a number of people who have had pinging problems with this tune on 91 octane, myself included. It is very audible if you are next to a concrete barrier like on a freeway onramp.

If you have the ability to run 94 octane, just do that, sounds like you've already tried and it solved you issue. The tune will take advantage of the additional knock resistance which it appears like you noticed. I am jealous since 91 is the most I have here in AZ unless I jump to race fuel which I now do for track days.

Do listen to the other guys about the tuning issues of the 87mm throttle body. I've had two tunes from different vendors and they got it close, but Ford's calibration is definitely better. It's noticeable on the track when you are trying to gradually roll on the throttle coming out of a corner.

Was it worth it even though you were pinging? I have access to 91 only really such a shame

 

[AZ18yote]

OP, don't listen to these guys telling you that the the shop doesn't know what they are talking about. If you search on this forum you will find a number of people who have had pinging problems with this tune on 91 octane, myself included. It is very audible if you are next to a concrete barrier like on a freeway onramp.

If you have the ability to run 94 octane, just do that, sounds like you've already tried and it solved you issue. The tune will take advantage of the additional knock resistance which it appears like you noticed. I am jealous since 91 is the most I have here in AZ unless I jump to race fuel which I now do for track days.

Do listen to the other guys about the tuning issues of the 87mm throttle body. I've had two tunes from different vendors and they got it close, but Ford's calibration is definitely better. It's noticeable on the track when you are trying to gradually roll on the throttle coming out of a corner.

Our 91 is questionable here. But if you're in Phx you should consider going flex / e85 depending on area. Even when on e54 it's leaps and bounds over 91.

 

[thelostotter]

Was it worth it even though you were pinging? I have access to 91 only really such a shame

I definitely do not recommend it if you only have access to 91 like we do here in the Southwest as I don't think it provides enough knock resistance for the PP2 tune even with octane adjust on. You may dig up a post from me on here a few years ago were I recommended it but I don't now.

This is why - I drive the car hard and it gets tracked. Last year I noticed my catch can filling up faster and faster while on track. On the street it was fine so never figured there was an issue. The car ran awesome, but that knock on tip in always worried me. I figured because these cars have knock sensors that it was minor enough to prevent damage. Obviously it wasn't. I didn't have the PP2 tune on my car when it finally lost enough compression to develop a miss, but I do think the ring land failure started with the PP2 tune and progressed from there. I can't think of any other reason why I had this failure because the only time I have ever heard my car knock was with the PP2 tune on the street.

After rebuilding the motor last summer in my 115 degree garage I decided to install a bigger oil cooler, real oil and coolant temp sensors, and run race fuel when I track the car so that I NEVER need to do that again. A flex fuel tune would be more cost effective but I already go through so much gas in a single event that I might need to haul more fuel than I have room for.

On a positive note, no more BBQ tick after the rebuild

 

[Chomorro]

I definitely do not recommend it if you only have access to 91 like we do here in the Southwest as I don't think it provides enough knock resistance for the PP2 tune even with octane adjust on. You may dig up a post from me on here a few years ago were I recommended it but I don't now.

This is why - I drive the car hard and it gets tracked. Last year I noticed my catch can filling up faster and faster while on track. On the street it was fine so never figured there was an issue. The car ran awesome, but that knock on tip in always worried me. I figured because these cars have knock sensors that it was minor enough to prevent damage. Obviously it wasn't. I didn't have the PP2 tune on my car when it finally lost enough compression to develop a miss, but I do think the ring land failure started with the PP2 tune and progressed from there. I can't think of any other reason why I had this failure because the only time I have ever heard my car knock was with the PP2 tune on the street.

After rebuilding the motor last summer in my 115 degree garage I decided to install a bigger oil cooler, real oil and coolant temp sensors, and run race fuel when I track the car so that I NEVER need to do that again. A flex fuel tune would be more cost effective but I already go through so much gas in a single event that I might need to haul more fuel than I have room for.

On a positive note, no more BBQ tick after the rebuild

This sucks, I have had many engines that end up with damage after the best custom tune possible. Built the motors and still got crack ringlands of course this is with high boosted applications but it drove me crazy and cost a lot. I was really hoping for a factory carb compliant option with V8 reliability. If I get a supercharger I have to stick with the provided tune for carb stuff too.

But then again might leave it stock and still get engine damage haha

 

[Dom1232]

OP, don't listen to these guys telling you that the the shop doesn't know what they are talking about. If you search on this forum you will find a number of people who have had pinging problems with this tune on 91 octane, myself included. It is very audible if you are next to a concrete barrier like on a freeway onramp.

If you have the ability to run 94 octane, just do that, sounds like you've already tried and it solved you issue. The tune will take advantage of the additional knock resistance which it appears like you noticed. I am jealous since 91 is the most I have here in AZ unless I jump to race fuel which I now do for track days.

Do listen to the other guys about the tuning issues of the 87mm throttle body. I've had two tunes from different vendors and they got it close, but Ford's calibration is definitely better. It's noticeable on the track when you are trying to gradually roll on the throttle coming out of a corner.

where the shop went wrong is not running diagnostics. It could be poor fuel quality, it could be spark related and how they were gapped or are functioning, it could be running lean, it could be oil blow by related from raising the rev limiter.... I genuinely would not trust them to tune my car if they end a dyno session For “pinging” without a reason or diagnostics whether it is happening or not. thousands of these kits were sold and used without issue. What varies is the functionality of your engine and fuel quality. What if it was installation error? You should be pulling spark advance long before there is ever knock or detonation. I’d like to see an actual log of this FP tune and someone having audible pinging. Not saying it doesn’t occur, I just don’t think I’d trust hearing over actual diagnostics when people can run 650 whipple kits on 91

 

[accel]

I definitely do not recommend it if you only have access to 91 like we do here in the Southwest as I don't think it provides enough knock resistance for the PP2 tune even with octane adjust on. You may dig up a post from me on here a few years ago were I recommended it but I don't now.

This is why - I drive the car hard and it gets tracked. Last year I noticed my catch can filling up faster and faster while on track. On the street it was fine so never figured there was an issue. The car ran awesome, but that knock on tip in always worried me. I figured because these cars have knock sensors that it was minor enough to prevent damage. Obviously it wasn't. I didn't have the PP2 tune on my car when it finally lost enough compression to develop a miss, but I do think the ring land failure started with the PP2 tune and progressed from there. I can't think of any other reason why I had this failure because the only time I have ever heard my car knock was with the PP2 tune on the street.

After rebuilding the motor last summer in my 115 degree garage I decided to install a bigger oil cooler, real oil and coolant temp sensors, and run race fuel when I track the car so that I NEVER need to do that again. A flex fuel tune would be more cost effective but I already go through so much gas in a single event that I might need to haul more fuel than I have room for.

On a positive note, no more BBQ tick after the rebuild

I attempted pp2 three times and uninstalled it 3 times. Thried many things but the ping would be back.

The only thing that worked for me was installing breathers. But I also quickly realized that gases will smell in cabin and I will not want to tolerate that.

I then tried to replace breathers with two catch cans connected sequentially- frpp and upr, but that din not help.

 

[lazarus870]

Turns out my Chevron 94 ethanol free I have here in Western Canada is considered by some to be only equivalent to good 91 in the US. Not sure how that works. Apparently ethanol in the gas helps with knocking. Go figure. That said, since i put the Chevron 94 it seems to be better and I've tried to make the knock sound come back without success. But I'll need to put a few tanks through it for sure to see.

 

[Chomorro]

Despite the bad threads in my research I already had the powerpack 2 in the garage so I went ahead and installed it. Only 20 miles on the test drive at light throttle on costco 91 and no issues. Crossing the fingers no problems will occur. Waiting for 100 miles of ECU learning before giving it some gas.

 

[WILDB]

I have it installed on my Australian spec 2017 GT auto with the RHD specific tune. The best gas we can get here is 98 octane, which roughly equates to US 93 octane. I have tried multiple brands of gas. I set the calibration to Octane Adjust on when loading it, as well as a profile relearn.

I have very light pinging from about 1800rpm at times, more audible from around 2500-3250rpm, it seems to disappear after that. It only pings when the IATs are around 22°C/76°F or higher. You can't hear it in the car, only with the windows down driving next to a solid wall/barrier etc.

I'm running Ford Performance catch cans on both sides, have had RH can from new basically.

I'm at a loss as to what to do next. I love the added performance, but am concerned about damaging the motor.

I was almost toying with the idea of trying some new spark plugs to see if that improved things. I've only got around 32000km/20000mi on the car, so you'd expect they should be ok.

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