Power Pack 2 pinging on 91...now what?

[lazarus870]

Got it installed at a Ford dealership. Took it to a shop to get dyno'd today to see what kind of power she's making. They said they heard audible knock between about 3500 RPM in third and to dyno in 5th wouldn't be safe for the car. It's running on Shell 91.
The Ford dealer assured me it was a 91 tune.

Could this be a bad batch of gas?
I have the option to run 94 but I don't know if Ford can do anything if I take it back to them and ask for them to look into it...

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[Meatball]

When I had PP3 the shop that did it advised me to keep “octane adjust” on while on Cali 91. It drops the initial timing a little bit. I think the car will survive with it on but you won’t get full timing and it sounds frightening in a bad way.

 

[Brazos609]

When I had PP3 the shop that did it advised me to keep “octane adjust” on while on Cali 91. It drops the initial timing a little bit. I think the car will survive with it on but you won’t get full timing and it sounds frightening in a bad way.

How did it sound with octane adjust on? Wouldn't it have sounded worse with octane adjust off and pinging from low quality 91?

 

[Meatball]

How did it sound with octane adjust on? Wouldn't it have sounded worse with octane adjust of a pinging from low quality 91?

I only heard pinging at throttle tip-in, a little rattle that was most obvious when driving next to a wall or truck. It goes away as the engine revs up and the ecu pulls timing. OA just starts off with timing already retarded a bit. FP swears this is normal behavior, and I’m sure they’re right.

 

[WildHorse]

They said they heard audible knock between about 3500 RPM in third

What the logs say ? Was it pulling timing ? Should be long before you hear any sort of detonation.

 

[Chomorro]

When I had PP3 the shop that did it advised me to keep “octane adjust” on while on Cali 91. It drops the initial timing a little bit. I think the car will survive with it on but you won’t get full timing and it sounds frightening in a bad way.

Is this setup to leave on in the procal? Just curious since I'm installing my pp2 soon. Would want to leave this on.

 

[Chomorro]

Got it installed at a Ford dealership. Took it to a shop to get dyno'd today to see what kind of power she's making. They said they heard audible knock between about 3500 RPM in third and to dyno in 5th wouldn't be safe for the car. It's running on Shell 91.
The Ford dealer assured me it was a 91 tune.

Could this be a bad batch of gas?
I have the option to run 94 but I don't know if Ford can do anything if I take it back to them and ask for them to look into it...

Do you have an air oil Seperator? I read it helps not lower the octane once installed. I was thinking of installing one along with my pp2. Also in CA on 91.

 

[Cory S]

They didn't hear anything. Spark advance will be pulled way before outside knock is heard....
Need to watch the data real time, and log on the dyno.

 

[Meatball]

Is this setup to leave on in the procal? Just curious since I'm installing my pp2 soon. Would want to leave this on.

You can set it on or off via the procal tool.

 

[Brazos609]

Got it installed at a Ford dealership. Took it to a shop to get dyno'd today to see what kind of power she's making. They said they heard audible knock between about 3500 RPM in third and to dyno in 5th wouldn't be safe for the car. It's running on Shell 91. The Ford dealer assured me it was a 91 tune. Could this be a bad batch of gas? I have the option to run 94 but I don't know if Ford can do anything if I take it back to them and ask for them to look into it...

Wouldn't the safe bet be to just start running the available 94 octane? Try leaving ave octane adjust off and try it on and see which runs smoother/better. The Ford dealer won't and can't make changes to the Power Pack tune anyways other than the allowable changes withing the Ford Performance software. Hopefully you gave them your laptop to load the software and tune.

 

[Dom1232]

91 gas is typically terrible quality that being said I would be surprised if you were genuinely detonating. Run 94 if you have it available. /edit. My bad you’re in Canada I thought you were in CA. As mentioned before you’d be pulling spark advance long before you’d ever be hearing it detonate. I would log the car and see what your knock sensors / spark advance are actually doing. I really doubt the ford tune is too aggressive and you’re genuinely detonating on shell 91.....

 

[Zelek]

Or you could get a real tune from one of the big names and actually do some data logging unlike that garbage power pack tune in a can.

 

[lazarus870]

What the logs say ? Was it pulling timing ? Should be long before you hear any sort of detonation.

Didn't get any logs. Dyno operator and tech both heard and decided to shut it down.

Do you have an air oil Seperator? I read it helps not lower the octane once installed. I was thinking of installing one along with my pp2. Also in CA on 91.

No oil seperator, just stock aside from PP2.

They didn't hear anything. Spark advance will be pulled way before outside knock is heard....
Need to watch the data real time, and log on the dyno.

So what would the noise be then? I tested it myself next to a barrier, gave it throttle at the RPM they said it was doing it and it sounded like shaking a quarter in a jar.

Wouldn't the safe bet be to just start running the available 94 octane? Try leaving ave octane adjust off and try it on and see which runs smoother/better. The Ford dealer won't and can't make changes to the Power Pack tune anyways other than the allowable changes withing the Ford Performance software. Hopefully you gave them your laptop to load the software and tune.

I just filled up with 94 Chevron, ethanol free. I had about 30-35% left of Shell 91 and topped off with 94 Chevron. I don't know how long it takes to adjust, but I swear it felt more responsive in initial tip in and I couldn't make the rattle sound come back. Hard to believe it would be solved so quickly though!

91 gas is typically terrible quality that being said I would be surprised if you were genuinely detonating. Run 94 if you have it available. /edit. My bad you’re in Canada I thought you were in CA. As mentioned before you’d be pulling spark advance long before you’d ever be hearing it detonate. I would log the car and see what your knock sensors / spark advance are actually doing. I really doubt the ford tune is too aggressive and you’re genuinely detonating on shell 91.....

I have 94, filled up with it with some 91 left so maybe 92.5 octane now? haha

They didn't log the car to see what was happening, this was all audible. But if I am still having problems on 94 they said they could give it a custom tune to actually work with 91 and they said they'd have no issues reusing the Ford CAI and TB that came with the PP2

 

[WildHorse]

Didn't get any logs. Dyno operator and tech both heard and decided to shut it down.

They never looked ? Go somewhere else would be my suggestion.

 

[Dr. Norts]

Just fill up with 94 from now on. The price difference vs 91 is marginal on its best day and then you'll have some good headroom and you'll get the full timing that's coded into the tune.

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