Please comment... Who has seen oil pump gear and crank sprocket failures?

Discussion in 'Forced Induction - 5.0L V8 Engine' started by lucasmelobr, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. lucasmelobr

    lucasmelobr Well-Known Member

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    Looking to HPDE a 2016 A6 with a Procharger Stage 2. Most say it's "needed", how many have seen it fail? Please comment.
    I read about motors failing but what percentage is due to the oil pump gear and crank sprocket? 1%? 10%? Versus just motor failure?
     
  2. bluebeastsrt

    bluebeastsrt Oh boy

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    The magic 8 ball is telling me. Reply hazy...try again. In all seriousness. How the hell are we supposed to know the percentages??? Some people like myself. Will tell you it’s cheap insurance. Others that didn’t do it. Will laugh and say it’s totally unnecessary. If your thinking about strapping on boost. Ya gotta figure out this stuff for yourself. That probably sounds dickish. But not meant to be.
     
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  3. BlackandBlue

    BlackandBlue Well-Known Member

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    ~386,000 S550s have been sold.

    Let’s say 25% were GTs so 96,500.

    If 5% got some forced induction that’s 4825 cars. (Prob low)

    So 1% would be 48 and 10% would be 483.

    So my opinion is I have no idea.
     
  4. Crackerjack17

    Crackerjack17 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't had an accident in 20 years. But I still put the seatbelt on. Should I?
     
  5. BlackandBlue

    BlackandBlue Well-Known Member

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    If it cost a $1 every time you put it on would you have worn it for 20 years?

    Have to have money in a comparative analogy.
     
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  6. moffetts

    moffetts Well-Known Member

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    The more you worry about the crank sprocket or OPG failing, the more likely it is something else will pop instead. If you’re going to worry about it, get them upgraded. If you’re a more laid back, things happen because of fate type, get out there and lay on it.
     
  7. 808muscle

    808muscle Well-Known Member

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    I didn't do them with a stage 2 Whipple. I don't take this car to the track since adding the blower, I'd get 1 or 2 passes before they would kick me out. I have a separate bracket car for racing. So for me it's doubtful I'll ever be up against the limiter WOT very often and they'll be just fine. Everyone's driving habits are different. Watch YOLOs video on the subject. He says no.
     
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  8. Burkey

    Burkey Well-Known Member

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    A mate of mine here in Australia broke his a month or two ago.
    He actually thought he’d avoided the problem by replacing the pump assembly, not realising the gears were still “Ford quality”
    Not even boosted either.
    Can you afford not to replace them?
    A9DF3BF6-BF65-4797-AC43-44D96B073464.jpeg 513B5EA5-BA20-4078-80C0-0C9CCFE87EBE.jpeg
     
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  9. Shifting_Gears

    Shifting_Gears Well-Known Member

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    My opinion - not having owned a blown GT, but just based off how a supercharger works:

    Belt tension is critical for the blower to operate efficiently and not slip under boost. This extra tension is also placed on all the accessories and most importantly, the crankshaft. OPG’s will be directly effected by this.

    It makes sense for a blown car to replace the OPG’s, especially if high RPM is going to be a factor. I imagine this is the recipe for most failures. If you’re spending $5-$8k for a blower setup, spend the few hundred extra to beef them up.
     
  10. Dennisn

    Dennisn Well-Known Member

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    how bout haven’t had an accident in 20 years should I still get car insurance?
     
  11. Roh92cp

    Roh92cp Well-Known Member

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    Here is my story, I was one of the first here with a Whipple GT to brake them. I worried about so much that I put an aftermarket damper on try and help avoid it:facepalm: Should have done OPG in the first place with my luck. The aftermarket damper may have contributed to its failure, but as we've seen they can go all on their own without any help.
    https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/opg-failed-last-night-street-car.63037/
     
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  12. sigintel

    sigintel Well-Known Member

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    #12 sigintel, Oct 28, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    We talkn OPG/TG, seatbelts or condoms here?
    Either way, the cost of failure is stress and way more money than cost of protection.

    https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/what-did-you-pay.84439/#post-1891248
    I tracked a Whippled 15 and switched to GT350 pan and pump housing. Even w forged OPG, the evidence of wear during high G oil starve events was damning and I was lucky. No way would I road course without TG/OPG.

    FORGED TG is $50 FRPP, get TSS OPG , GT350 pump is cheap, GT350 pan is $130 shipped.
     
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  13. engineermike

    engineermike Well-Known Member

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    This is correct. I do cost justification of mechanical preventative measures on a weekly basis. The math works like this: you compare the cost of the upgrade to the cost of not doing the upgrade. The trick is that the cost of not doing the upgrade is the cost of the failure times the probability of failure.

    Assuming you have alternate transportation, you pay to get the work done, and the failure rate is 5% (50 supercharged cars break opg out of 1000....seems high to me but for argument’s sake I’ll use it).

    Cost of the upgrade = $2000

    Cost of not doing the upgrade = ($5200 (tasca long block) + $400 shipping + $2000 installation) x 0.05 = $380

    When choosing between $2000 and $380, you’d obviously go with the $380. Of course if you do the work yourself, costs go down; if you don’t have alternate transportation, costs go up, etc....you can plug in your own numbers to see what makes sense for you. If you do the work yourself, is more like $200 vs $280 in favor of doing it. If the failure rate is 3%, then it’s $200 vs $170 in favor of not doing it. And so on...
     
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  14. BlackandBlue

    BlackandBlue Well-Known Member

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    When I go supercharged I will probably not change my oil pump gears.

    What I will do is build a little module that will cut power to the ignition system when oil pressure drops below a certain threshold. Say 3psi. This would not save the rod and main bearings but it would most likely save the heads(cam journals?). At that point I would most likely build a factory block with some pistons and rods and oil pump gears.

    The biggest reason why I wouldn’t change them is I don’t think the failure rate is very high. What it is I don’t know but I can imagine it is very low consider the amount of cars running around with Roush superchargers. I think the biggest factor here is HP. I would most likely stay around 650s. Any more and I would go ahead and build a little factory block.

    I would if I owned a 16 is check figment of a 18 damper. That should help to take some extra vibration out.
     
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  15. engineermike

    engineermike Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. It seems like the gen3’s fail less opg’s than the gen2’s, even though they spin higher and make more power. I suspect it’s due to the dynamically *matched* fluid damper. The gen3’s seem to break pistons more than gen2’s, possibly due to higher compression.
     
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