PBD Saying they can’t tune due to injectors

BigBad599

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Hi, so for some back story here we go

(stage 1 Whipple with 36lbs injectors they offered in the kit a while back) (this is information I got directly from Dennis working at Whipple when he looked up my serial number)

a month ago my oem cats blew out and with it being winter I decided to put the car up and buy kooks headers with all the needed supporting items etc. since I have a Whipple tune they had told me they couldn’t retune the car with headers so I decided to go with PBD. Got the Iat harness bought the RTD+ through lethal with credits etc.

I have been talking with pbd through email with all the tuning information etc and I’ve hit a wall. Now this being my first time buying a tune etc I’m not bashing I’m just incredibly confused and need some insight not bashing at all just need my car back up and running before winters end. The wall is the gentleman over at pbd is saying they cannot tune the car with the current injectors because they are too “small” and that I and I quote “we will need bigger injectors like the Whipple 72” now is he just blowing smoke and I need to contact someone eles at pbd? Or do I actually need bigger injectors?

again I’m not bashing I’m just confused in the fact that this is a custom tune and they can’t tune my car. Because the car is running fine on Whipples tune just need to get it tuned for the headers… I’m not hp hunting just need the car to run smoothly.

 

AZlb5.0

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They could be looking ahead and thinking that with each time you up the HP and have to change injectors they’ll have to retune for HP gains and injectors. If that Whipple plateaus with 72lbs injectors then that could be a reason and one less thing theyll have to worry about. Then again I could be wrong.
 

Torinate

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Um, yea. You’re going to need bigger injectors. Aren’t stock injectors 34s?
 

NightmareMoon

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The tuner will know from datalogs you provide if its leaner than they want with the injectors at 100% duty cycle. Lean is not something you even want to flirt with when it comes to boost. With a NA motor, a little lean probably won't grenade the engine, but with boost, that's a different story.

headers actually up the power, which means more fuel flow needed. Its not as simple as "just add headers"
 

Shifting_Gears

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36lbs seems too small for any type forced induction. Too little margin for them being maxed out and running into trouble going lean. I doubt you’re being BS’d. For what it’s worth, I believe the GT500 injectors are rated at 55lbs.
 


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BigBad599

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Appreciate all the answers, looks like I’ll be getting bigger injectors then. I’m new to all this and learning about it everyday
 

Ryan_s550

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Hi, so for some back story here we go

(stage 1 Whipple with 36lbs injectors they offered in the kit a while back) (this is information I got directly from Dennis working at Whipple when he looked up my serial number)

a month ago my oem cats blew out and with it being winter I decided to put the car up and buy kooks headers with all the needed supporting items etc. since I have a Whipple tune they had told me they couldn’t retune the car with headers so I decided to go with PBD. Got the Iat harness bought the RTD+ through lethal with credits etc.

I have been talking with pbd through email with all the tuning information etc and I’ve hit a wall. Now this being my first time buying a tune etc I’m not bashing I’m just incredibly confused and need some insight not bashing at all just need my car back up and running before winters end. The wall is the gentleman over at pbd is saying they cannot tune the car with the current injectors because they are too “small” and that I and I quote “we will need bigger injectors like the Whipple 72” now is he just blowing smoke and I need to contact someone eles at pbd? Or do I actually need bigger injectors?

again I’m not bashing I’m just confused in the fact that this is a custom tune and they can’t tune my car. Because the car is running fine on Whipples tune just need to get it tuned for the headers… I’m not hp hunting just need the car to run smoothly.
Id get some clarity on the issue, but those will typically support everything pump gas will allow you to make. Those injectors are small, but keep in mind your DI injectors are also supplying fuel.
 

engineermike

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@Ryan_s550 is right. If you’re on pump gasoline and running max gdi, the 36’s are fine. The gdi system can handle 75% of your fueling, especially once you turn off cat overtemp protection.

You can log pi idc and max idc to see how close to the limit you currently are. But the canned Whipple tune unnecessarily holds back the gdi side, so it’s not a great indicator. In fact, many tuners don’t bother trying to optimize the gdi because they don’t understand it. I don’t know what PBD does with the gdi.

Adding headers alone doesn’t actually change the fueling needs of the engine because the airflow doesn’t change. If you remove cats then the needed fuel flow actually is reduced.
 

LethalPerformance

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Since the custom tune is going to make more power than the Whipple cal did the injectors that came with the system will need to be upgraded. They're definitely not blowing any smoke your way but more so looking out for you. The last thing they want to see is you have a failure so I highly suggest going with their recommendation.


Thanks you as well for placing the order through us. We really appreciate it. If you need some help with a larger set of injectors give us a shout. We have tons of stuff on sale for BF/CM.

Thanks!
 

Red5.0

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They are not blowing smoke. That is the norm. They want you to have enough injector to make sure your engine will function properly and not blow up. Injectors is usually one of the items that you want to have a little more than just enough on. Also before buying any brand injectors, make sure to ask what specific size and brand they want you to get. Some tuners do not tune specific brands or prefer a certain brands over another.
 

tdstuart

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Surprised you have 36 lb injectors. Those things are tiny. PBD is right, you will need bigger.

For reference most people use atleast 42 lb on N/A setups and I think about 60+ for forced induction setups.

You don’t want your injectors running at max, and you will need room for error.

You may also need a fuel pump voltage booster.
 

Ryan_s550

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Surprised you have 36 lb injectors. Those things are tiny. PBD is right, you will need bigger.

For reference most people use atleast 42 lb on N/A setups and I think about 60+ for forced induction setups.

You don’t want your injectors running at max, and you will need room for error.

You may also need a fuel pump voltage booster.
You are forgetting Gen 3s have 16 injectors. Ive had the other well known S550 tuner make 715whp on the supplied Whipple injectors with no issues. I cant remember if that car had a BAP or not. With that being said, if PBD is saying it needs injectors I dont imagine they are just trying to make an upsale. They have treated me right on a couple of cars they tuned.
 

tdstuart

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You are forgetting Gen 3s have 16 injectors. Ive had the other well known S550 tuner make 715whp on the supplied Whipple injectors with no issues. I cant remember if that car had a BAP or not. With that being said, if PBD is saying it needs injectors I dont imagine they are just trying to make an upsale. They have treated me right on a couple of cars they tuned.
Yes you are correct I am going off gen 2 cars not the directed injected gen 3 cars.

Thank you for the correction :)
 

 
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