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Opinion and Info on different spring rates

Bluemustang

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I guess we should just get rid of the suspensions technical subforum and just do what Steeda says. Even though I bet 98% of Steeda’s customers never see a racetrack. But basically we are all stupid because we’re not professional race car drivers doing time trials and therefore we know nothing.

For the record, the rates for the Y springs provided in this thread... This makes the 3RD different set of rates provided to me by Steeda for these springs. Which one is correct? Hard to say really. Furthermore, I’ve been told by Steeda more than once that my RLCA bearing which I bought from them - actually induces bind in the suspension, where their website clearly states it reduces bind to allow the suspension to move more freely. I could have made massive changes to my suspension based on this conflicting information. Nope- I just needed new springs.
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Competition Orange

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The only way I'm giving up my Dual Rate Comp springs is if I magically can afford a set of proper motorsport/racing-grade remote reservoir coilovers and someone can tell me how dufuq to benefit from all their adjustments.
I feel the same way about BMR.

You can - in limited spurts. In HPDE, I can go (my version of) 10/10ths for only portions of laps, as the traffic is either not fast enough or not capable enough to not be in the way. Additionally, each session is only 20-min.

In racing, everyone is balls to the wall (generally). Steeda does enduro races, so their out there (with one pit) for approximately 1.5 hours. They're competing against people who are licensed race car drivers competing in sanctioned racing events, and thus you're not going to be clicking off "point bys" for 20-min and thus thinking you're a track god (like I do... :headbang: :first:).

If you get an HPDE session with very little traffic and do your absolute best achieving on street tires what's considered a good time even for a car with sticky tires, like I have, then hand your car off to an experienced race driver and he blatantly beats your time by damn near 3 seconds in the "Instructor field" (which is full passing and relatively equal driver skill throughout) the very first time he drives your car in the same configuration (returning to the paddock with a smile and smoking brakes)... I guess you come to realize... your little HPDE sessions aren't racing. Don't assume they are.
You said it best in another thread, wall of text, steeda steeda steeda :)

Limit behavior of a car doesn't depend on having race tires or not. Get some vehicle dynamics knowledge. Stickier tires can exaggerate tendencies because of the increase in grip. Also, most people are only doing HPDEs on street legal tires and do not give a hoot what a someone ended up with on a racecar. They care about their car and what it does with their chosen equipment. Great drivers can access and take a car to the limit in every corner. Don't take away from experienced drivers' ability to know what cars do at the edge of adhesion just because they lack consistency to do it everywhere (and thus laptimes). [MENTION=6743]Norm Peterson[/MENTION] [MENTION=18090]Competition Orange[/MENTION]

I guess the answer is just give up because no one that's not racing knows shit about shit. Come on guys.
Agree 100%.

I will go a step further and say that I think people are too consumed with modding their cars, analyzing data, when in the HPDE category. Sure it's a gateway to W2W, but lets be honest here, Any uprated spring with good general "suspension" figures, any uprated damper (fixed or adjustable) and some good tires will be enough for 95% of "HPDE'ers" to continue to learn and grow indefinitely. The other 4.9% will hit a limit, but it won't be after a year, or even 2, it takes time to maximize the s550, especially if you're changing stuff all the time. That last 0.1% can see on track time decreases from hardware, but come on guys, we're not that 0.1%.

I'd put my low budget setup of multiple manufacturers (BMR, Koni and Steeda) with me behind the wheel up against anyone and feel good about my chances.
 

wildcatgoal

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This is hilarious. Getting into pointed, personal attacks because Steeda had the decency to post some factual information in a sea of misinformation. What a bunch of sorority girls we have today...

Why are people getting butt hurt over a fact: HPDE is not the same as racing. It isn't for so many reasons and I don't understand why this isn't blatantly obvious. God forbid a company designs and tests their products for and in racing to prove they actually function and aren't snake oil. I guess we should just ask Steeda to make some "uprated dampers and uprated springs cuz that's all we need" and to shut their mouths when they provide information you would not get anywhere else. God forbid, though, someone moving up the ranks in HPDE wants to learn with data and facts and advice from actual race drivers!

How many HPDE sessions have you been through, guys? Have you raced in sanctioned racing? Have you at least spoken with, at length, numerous race drivers (which you can often find at Chin Track Day HPDE events in the Advanced class absolutely murdering high-dollar cars with Spec BMW 3s)? Like... why the flying F is everyone attacking Steeda for offering up information nobody else will give freely? So odd...

Steeda is testing their products, to the benefit of HPDE drivers, too (which should be obvious), in actual racing, and enduro racing at that, which tests the limits of the car for real. Stop being babies. There is no misinformation in this thread. Steeda isn't attacking you, either.

Calm the hell down.
 
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Rebellion

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Thanks, for responding to our findings. I will respond shortly but will move this request to our Steeda spring and tuning thread. Furthermore, I would like to keep this educational for our 6gmembers.
The results given are going to be actual testing and based in competition.
There is no way you can do hard core testing on public roads or at HPDE due to traffic and other restrictions. Furthermore, we are talking about High Speed Events in Competition and based on improved lap times,Winning and experienced driver feedback. Setting up a Auto X is completely different than a road race car, hi spring rates in Auto cross are their best friend.
On another note, our Pro-Action adjustable dampers can handle up to a 400lbs/in wheel rate.
Steeda has tested every spring combo you could imagine and we will always continue testing different alternatives.

Below, is a great Video of our # 20 car in competition keeping pace with a purpose built GT2 race car and passing. Take note where the GT2 purpose built race car gets loose and the number 20 car is flat and stable and gaining ground on the GT2 Mustang

This is sort of interesting, I guess the 900+lbs behavior doesn't really apply to us regular guys on track and specially on autocross. Also know of some guys using Pro-Actions with our type of rates, seems like a non-issue. :amen:

On the topic of the vid, curious to know when did the other car exhibit this bouncing behavior? Saw some tail swag, which is normal under certain specific conditions, more of driver dependent thing than suspension. The other car seems to be a S197, the effect might or (likely) might not translate to our cars due to totally different architecture. It'd be interesting to know in case I got really really really good at driving. :cheers:
 

wildcatgoal

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For the record, the rates for the Y springs provided in this thread... This makes the 3RD different set of rates provided to me by Steeda for these springs. Which one is correct? Hard to say really. Furthermore, I’ve been told by Steeda more than once that my RLCA bearing which I bought from them - actually induces bind in the suspension, where their website clearly states it reduces bind to allow the suspension to move more freely. I could have made massive changes to my suspension based on this conflicting information. Nope- I just needed new springs.
Steeda's RLCA bearing doesn't induce bind. RLCA bearings from some competition are anodized, which requires you to account for added thickness in machining the casing. If they didn't do so, and you press the bearing in, you're effectively compressing the entire assembly a teeny tiny bit, and ultimately the bearing in the middle can bind (not freely move). Steeda has replaced LCA bearings from competition in cars that come to them with rear suspension issues with their own; that's when that issue was identified. Maybe you've misunderstood something told to you, likely when someone at Steeda was speaking to you, trying to be helpful and not expecting to be backstabbed on an internet forum as a thank you.
 

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This is hilarious. Getting into pointed, personal attacks because Steeda had the decency to post some factual information in a sea of misinformation. What a bunch of sorority girls we have today...

Why are people getting butt hurt over a fact: HPDE is not the same as racing. It isn't for so many reasons and I don't understand why this isn't blatantly obvious. God forbid a company designs and tests their products for and in racing to prove they actually function and aren't snake oil. I guess we should just ask Steeda to make some "uprated dampers and uprated springs cuz that's all we need" and to shut their mouths when they provide information your would not get anywhere else.

How many HPDE sessions have you been through, guys? Have you raced in sanctioned racing? Have you even spoken with, at length, numerous race drivers (which you can often find at Chin Track Day HPDE events in the Advanced class absolutely murdering high-dollar cars with Spec BMW 3s).

Steeda is testing their products, to the benefit of HPDE drivers, too (which should be obvious), in actual racing, and enduro racing at that, which tests the limits of the car for real. Stop being babies. There is no misinformation in this thread. Steeda isn't attacking you, either.

Calm the hell down.
The only misinformation is stating that >900 lb/in springs cause a car to be bouncy. That is sales tactics and simplifying the complex, multi-body system of suspension tuning down to a single component and a threshold number. NOTHING in vehicle dynamics is that simple.

I do appreciate [MENTION=25806]SteedaTech[/MENTION] posting the rates of these springs. It is useful information to have, and it is good for the overall community to share more information. Carry on.
 

Rebellion

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This is hilarious. Getting into pointed, personal attacks because Steeda had the decency to post some factual information in a sea of misinformation. What a bunch of sorority girls we have today...

Why are people getting butt hurt over a fact: HPDE is not the same as racing. It isn't for so many reasons and I don't understand why this isn't blatantly obvious. God forbid a company designs and tests their products for and in racing to prove they actually function and aren't snake oil. I guess we should just ask Steeda to make some "uprated dampers and uprated springs cuz that's all we need" and to shut their mouths when they provide information your would not get anywhere else.

How many HPDE sessions have you been through, guys? Have you raced in sanctioned racing? Have you even spoken with, at length, numerous race drivers (which you can often find at Chin Track Day HPDE events in the Advanced class absolutely murdering high-dollar cars with Spec BMW 3s).

Steeda is testing their products, to the benefit of HPDE drivers, too (which should be obvious), in actual racing, and enduro racing at that, which tests the limits of the car for real. Stop being babies. There is no misinformation in this thread. Steeda isn't attacking you, either.

Calm the hell down.
I'm not concerned so much about misinformation, this stuff ain't easy to verify anyways...but on how applicable the information is for us regular guys (HPDE, track night, autocross). Trying to clarify stuff here since the post made it sound scary to have 900+ springs, which for most folks that do have the setup haven't had any complaints corresponding to this effect.

I'm always digging for more information, and I guess most guys here are too, but putting everyone on a big scare sounds sort of wrong.
 

wildcatgoal

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I'm not concerned so much about misinformation, this stuff ain't easy to verify anyways...but on how applicable the information is for us regular guys (HPDE, track night, autocross). Trying to clarify stuff here since the post made it sound scary to have 900+ springs, which for most folks that do have the setup haven't had any complaints corresponding to this effect.

I'm always digging for more information, and I guess most guys here are too, but putting everyone on a big scare sounds sort of wrong.
Fair enough, I get that and read that the same. But my own reaction would be to get more into why. Not proclaim Steeda's assertion (based on more experience than any of us have) is without merit. Nobody does this to other companies in this forum, at least not in this gangup type approach - it's like the liberal media up in here. :shrug: Let me @mention my buddies and let's puff our chests out!
 

Niz55

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I tell you what, The 918lbs rear frpp lowering springs for gt350 is too soft for my taste. I dont get how the oem springs max out at 1240 while the frpp only goes up to 918.
 

wildcatgoal

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I tell you what, The 918lbs rear frpp lowering springs for gt350 is too soft for my taste. I dont get how the oem springs max out at 1240 while the frpp only goes up to 918.
I like stiff rear springs, as well. Mine are 1200 at curb weight (no idea what wheel rate 1200 translates to). I wouldn't be opposed to trying more.
 

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Rebellion

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Fair enough, I get that and read that the same. But my own reaction would be to get more into why. Not proclaim Steeda's assertion (based on more experience than any of us have) is without merit. Nobody does this to other companies in this forum, at least not in this gangup type approach - it's like the liberal media up in here. :shrug: Let me @mention my buddies and let's puff our chests out!
On that thread, I'm still interested on the science on how it gets bouncy after 900lbs...maybe one of these days I'll graduate to driving real fast. :first:
 
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SteedaTech

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Wow! Racing proves a theory or destroys it. Steeda does respect HPDE and our customers. I was hoping this would turn into some good collaboration. I was wrong. Just wanted to share some good information and I get blasted!
 
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Bluemustang

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Steeda's RLCA bearing doesn't induce bind. RLCA bearings from some competition are anodized, which requires you to account for added thickness in machining the casing. If they didn't do so, and you press the bearing in, you're effectively compressing the entire assembly a teeny tiny bit, and ultimately the bearing in the middle can bind (not freely move). Steeda has replaced LCA bearings from competition in cars that come to them with rear suspension issues with their own; that's when that issue was identified. Maybe you've misunderstood something told to you, likely when someone at Steeda was speaking to you, trying to be helpful and not expecting to be backstabbed on an internet forum as a thank you.
No I didn’t misunderstand what I was told. I asked at least twice just to confirm what was being told to me. And these were Steeda RLCA bearings. I could go into more detail but I don’t feel that is appropriate in a public forum.

I just got annoyed with some of the misinformation I was given and I don’t appreciate some of the tactics or implications from some of the vendors on this forum. I made my point, whether it’s taken or not. So I’ll politely move onto another thread. And I’m not meaning to backstab you Wildcat and I respect your dedication to this forum, so no there is no ill will from me that is directed towards you.
 

Competition Orange

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This is hilarious. Getting into pointed, personal attacks because Steeda had the decency to post some factual information in a sea of misinformation. What a bunch of sorority girls we have today...

Why are people getting butt hurt over a fact: HPDE is not the same as racing. It isn't for so many reasons and I don't understand why this isn't blatantly obvious. God forbid a company designs and tests their products for and in racing to prove they actually function and aren't snake oil. I guess we should just ask Steeda to make some "uprated dampers and uprated springs cuz that's all we need" and to shut their mouths when they provide information you would not get anywhere else. God forbid, though, someone moving up the ranks in HPDE wants to learn with data and facts and advice from actual race drivers!

How many HPDE sessions have you been through, guys? Have you raced in sanctioned racing? Have you at least spoken with, at length, numerous race drivers (which you can often find at Chin Track Day HPDE events in the Advanced class absolutely murdering high-dollar cars with Spec BMW 3s)? Like... why the flying F is everyone attacking Steeda for offering up information nobody else will give freely? So odd...

Steeda is testing their products, to the benefit of HPDE drivers, too (which should be obvious), in actual racing, and enduro racing at that, which tests the limits of the car for real. Stop being babies. There is no misinformation in this thread. Steeda isn't attacking you, either.

Calm the hell down.
You're the only one that's not calm, it seems. You laid out that whole "text and steeda" thing in another thread, thought you'd have a sense of humor about it. :shrug:

I never attacked Steeda, I have many of their parts on my car.

I also don't blame anyone for wanting to grow and learn and modify, it's fun.

Nothing I said was wrong, however.
 

S550GTCS

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I have the same dampers as those on the Steeda #20 car. I run 650# front springs and 840# rear springs (true rear coilover). It seems fine so far, but I have not taken it out on track yet. Took a long time for the dampers to be built.
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