Officially filed a lemon law claim through BBB Auto Line. What can I expect in terms of the possible outcomes?

[KCCG1219]

For a quick background, I bought my certified pre-owned 2020 EB with the upgraded equipment group & black accent package last August in NY. It had just over 3,000 miles on it at the time. The next day after bringing it home, it began showing signs of a transmission problem. Since the purchase date, the car has been at the service department for 71 cumulative days and has had 4 repair attempts - including repeatedly resetting the trans/learned shifting, replacing the trans, then overhauling the valve body. None of these attempts have fixed the car.

We spent several months arguing with the dealership about the car and eventually they agreed to help me "get out" of the vehicle - the offer they gave me was simply to buy my car back from me for $29,000 and let me pick out a new one. Problem is, there's no inventory. Anywhere. I'm sure they know this. So they offered to order one for me, but they will not budge on the price of the car. I'm getting it at MSRP, but the MSRP is at like just over $35,000, and my current vehicle was purchased for about $32,000. They refuse to give me more for my vehicle or sell me the new car for less to even out the price. They expect me to pay the taxes and fees all over again. I let them order the car for me and I gave an *extremely* small deposit so that it's mine if I decide I want it when it comes in, but truthfully I'm not happy with having to pay so much more, so I made a buyback request through Ford Motor Company and also filed a lemon law claim through BBB Auto Line.

The buyback request was filed a month ago, and I never heard back from them. I tried for three entire days to get updates, and eventually I reached someone who told me they closed my case for some unknown reason on the SAME DAY I OPENED IT (honestly not even surprised by the incompetence). She opened a new case for me and i'm still waiting AGAIN to hear back.

BBB quickly reached out and said they made a preliminary determination that my case is eligible. They have all my documentation of the repair orders, my own extremely detailed logs of every single encounter i've had with ford & the problems i've had with the car, etc. As far as the NY Lemon Law goes, i've definitely met every requirement needed. My question is this - what can I reasonably expect the outcome to be here? Ideally i'd like them to replace my car with a 2022 version at no extra cost to me, but i'm wondering if this is likely to happen or if anyone else was able to have this outcome.

If anyone went through a lemon law claim in NY and can offer some insight as to how long the process will take & what I should ask for/ expect the outcome to be, it'd be super appreciated. Thank you in advance!!

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[TrackMustang]

My understanding from lemon laws that have positive results (from California) is that you get 100% of your money back. I can’t imagine them giving you a brand new 2022 because you bought a used 2020. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot to ask…

 

[sirben711]

See my quote in my signature below ;)

My understanding from lemon laws that have positive results (from California) is that you get 100% of your money back. I can’t imagine them giving you a brand new 2022 because you bought a used 2020. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot to ask…

I guess it depends on the state and all but I would not think a certified preowned car would qualify as a lemon law-able car.... but again, I guess it depends on the state.

I am really sorry you are going through this KCCG1219. I can confirm things are not any better here in Missouri.

 

[Some Random Guy]

I’m sour from my time in NY. I’d expect to find out their lemon laws have no teeth. You will probably be offered free mediation and the AG will send a letter to Ford for you. Other than that, you’re on your own and will need to hire your own lawyer to do battle with Ford direct in the courtroom.

I hope you have better luck. I’m trying to keep politics out of my post while preparing you to go the only route that will help, court, at your own expense, until you win or give up.

 

[Firsttexan]

My understanding from lemon laws that have positive results (from California) is that you get 100% of your money back. I can’t imagine them giving you a brand new 2022 because you bought a used 2020. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot to ask…

Correct. They don't owe you punitive damages.

 

[KCCG1219]

My understanding from lemon laws that have positive results (from California) is that you get 100% of your money back. I can’t imagine them giving you a brand new 2022 because you bought a used 2020. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot to ask…

What else could they possibly replace it with then? I mean even people who bought a new 2021 and are filing a claim in 2022, there are practically no more new 2021’s sitting around at dealerships to replace the vehicle with. So wouldn’t it technically have to be a 2022?

In NY, depending on the year and mileage of a car it is still considered new when applying the state’s lemon law. So if they give me the option of buying it back or replacing it, and I want a replacement, how would that work?

 

[TrackMustang]

What else could they possibly replace it with then? I mean even people who bought a new 2021 and are filing a claim in 2022, there are practically no more new 2021’s sitting around at dealerships to replace the vehicle with. So wouldn’t it technically have to be a 2022?

In NY, depending on the year and mileage of a car it is still considered new when applying the state’s lemon law. So if they give me the option of buying it back or replacing it, and I want a replacement, how would that work?

That was kind of my point, they wouldn’t replace the car, it would just be a refund. Again, that’s just what I’ve heard from people I know and in CA.

 

[Firsttexan]

What else could they possibly replace it with then? I mean even people who bought a new 2021 and are filing a claim in 2022, there are practically no more new 2021’s sitting around at dealerships to replace the vehicle with. So wouldn’t it technically have to be a 2022?

In NY, depending on the year and mileage of a car it is still considered new when applying the state’s lemon law. So if they give me the option of buying it back or replacing it, and I want a replacement, how would that work?

You would have to wait or see if they can locate one for you.

There's only so much that can be done.

In the end, they are only obligated to refund your money.

In these times, that may be all they offer you.

 

[Some Random Guy]

What else could they possibly replace it with then? I mean even people who bought a new 2021 and are filing a claim in 2022, there are practically no more new 2021’s sitting around at dealerships to replace the vehicle with. So wouldn’t it technically have to be a 2022?

In NY, depending on the year and mileage of a car it is still considered new when applying the state’s lemon law. So if they give me the option of buying it back or replacing it, and I want a replacement, how would that work?

If they (Ford) can find a used ‘21 with comparable miles to your lemon, that can be offered. It doesn’t matter that you bought new. The state’s laws will determine which mileage is considered comparable, when the issue was reported, the current mileage, or somewhere in between.

 

[KCCG1219]

That was kind of my point, they wouldn’t replace the car, it would just be a refund. Again, that’s just what I’ve heard from people I know and in CA.

Hmmm. So what are the chances that the refund is more than what they offered to buy the car back from me for? Altogether after taxes and fees on the 2020 vehicle, it totaled like $34.5k. The “offer” the dealership gave me independently was $29k for the car.

Also, it’s funny because the sales manager tried to offer me even less and say “normally we wouldn’t even buy a car from someone with this many problems…” I said that’s funny because you were fine *selling* it to me with this many problems. Plus now it has a brand new transmission!

 

[TrackMustang]

Hmmm. So what are the chances that the refund is more than what they offered to buy the car back from me for? Altogether after taxes and fees on the 2020 vehicle, it totaled like $34.5k. The “offer” the dealership gave me independently was $29k for the car.

Also, it’s funny because the sales manager tried to offer me even less and say “normally we wouldn’t even buy a car from someone with this many problems…” I said that’s funny because you were fine *selling* it to me with this many problems. Plus now it has a brand new transmission!

Again, this is just what I’ve seen in CA, but one person got a great lawyer and he got every single penny he spent on the car plus a few thousand extra, but it was two years in court. The other one barely spent any time in court without a lawyer and got every penny she spent on the car.

 

[Cobra Jet]

For a quick background, I bought my certified pre-owned 2020 EB with the upgraded equipment group & black accent package last August in NY. It had just over 3,000 miles on it at the time. The next day after bringing it home, it began showing signs of a transmission problem. Since the purchase date, the car has been at the service department for 71 cumulative days and has had 4 repair attempts - including repeatedly resetting the trans/learned shifting, replacing the trans, then overhauling the valve body. None of these attempts have fixed the car.

We spent several months arguing with the dealership about the car and eventually they agreed to help me "get out" of the vehicle - the offer they gave me was simply to buy my car back from me for $29,000 and let me pick out a new one. Problem is, there's no inventory. Anywhere. I'm sure they know this. So they offered to order one for me, but they will not budge on the price of the car. I'm getting it at MSRP, but the MSRP is at like just over $35,000, and my current vehicle was purchased for about $32,000. They refuse to give me more for my vehicle or sell me the new car for less to even out the price. They expect me to pay the taxes and fees all over again. I let them order the car for me and I gave an *extremely* small deposit so that it's mine if I decide I want it when it comes in, but truthfully I'm not happy with having to pay so much more, so I made a buyback request through Ford Motor Company and also filed a lemon law claim through BBB Auto Line.

The buyback request was filed a month ago, and I never heard back from them. I tried for three entire days to get updates, and eventually I reached someone who told me they closed my case for some unknown reason on the SAME DAY I OPENED IT (honestly not even surprised by the incompetence). She opened a new case for me and i'm still waiting AGAIN to hear back.

BBB quickly reached out and said they made a preliminary determination that my case is eligible. They have all my documentation of the repair orders, my own extremely detailed logs of every single encounter i've had with ford & the problems i've had with the car, etc. As far as the NY Lemon Law goes, i've definitely met every requirement needed. My question is this - what can I reasonably expect the outcome to be here? Ideally i'd like them to replace my car with a 2022 version at no extra cost to me, but i'm wondering if this is likely to happen or if anyone else was able to have this outcome.

If anyone went through a lemon law claim in NY and can offer some insight as to how long the process will take & what I should ask for/ expect the outcome to be, it'd be super appreciated. Thank you in advance!!

Just so you are aware - when doing a Ford Buy Back through Ford RAV, if you are requesting a vehicle replacement (they refer to it as a swap of collateral), the process IS MSRP to MSRP. If the vehicle replacement MSRP is more than your original MSRP, yes, you are responsible for any State Doc Fees and State Tax delta.

The Ford RAV process for vehicle replacement is MSRP to MSRP. It doesn't matter what you paid for your current vehicle, there's NO Dealer discounts allowed, NO haggling over the new vehicle cost, NO A-X plan, NO rebates, NO Ford incentive discounts, NO Military/EMS/other discounts, etc... it is strictly MSRP to MSRP.

If the car was financed and the new car will be as well, also be prepared for any increase in loan rates if having to finance any delta - unless you can somehow broker a deal with the lending institution to retain your original % rate.

Also be very aware that Ford isn't imposing any additional fees or taxes during this transaction - ALL of that is based on the MSRP of the new replacement vehicle you chose AND your Home State's Lemon Law process. Ford goes strictly by that State's Lemon Law and will not deviate from it, nor can Ford add any such fees/taxes to the transaction.

The ONLY "penalty" Ford RAV can levy is if the vehicle being Lemon'd has any exterior/interior damages that meet or exceed Ford RAV's minimum criteria for such damages. If there is damages that meet/exceed their minimum values, the owner is responsible for paying out of pocket the day of signing for such repairs (and that repair rate or parts replacement is at Ford Dealership costs). Your Lemon'd vehicle will be inspected prior to filling out the paperwork and the new vehicle you are to get is also inspected by you and someone at the Dealership.

With the above said, if your MSRP delta is small, if you talk to your Ford RAV rep, see if they will be willing to do something about it due to your troubles.

The Ford Dealership is also only the middle man in any Ford RAV Buy Back. So don't expect them to jump any hoops for you - you have to be the one running the show by staying on top of Ford RAV (unfortunately).

 

[JG M1]

In lived in NY for over 66 years and finally moved out. My youngest daughter purchased a
VW Passat, which was beautiful, very clean and well maintained, however it had 170,000 miles.
I looked at the car and it ran perfect, but I advised her not to purchase it. Long story short,
she bought the car from a dealer and started to have endless problems and the car was never fixed properly. She contacted the NY Attorney General and within days the dealer called her and said we will refund your money in full. I was shocked that an 18-year-old girl contacted the AG and how fast the dealer refunded her money. I learned something that day.
Perhaps it would be worth a call to the AG.

 

[Gold Canyon]

No expert here but I will say what I think is correct....lemon law varies by state ; in my state the law is very specific and I hired attorney to force Dodge to buy back Viper I had bought new. He reviewed paper trail and said law covered my situation and that included Dodge paying my lawyer fees. In my state to be covered had to purchase new, lemon law covered only first 2 years of ownership [ my issue hit up 15 months in] AND the law gave then 3 attempts to fix ....they essentially gave me a full refund. In the process I had to give a deposition and Take car out of storage [ winter coming] and allow dodge folks who flew in from Detroit inspect the car . They were looking for modifications i may have made to void the warranty and get out of it. Check your state lemon law first to see if you are even covered and if not you might try talking to local tv stations etc .

 

[Cobra Jet]

@KCCG1219

If you do a search on here using the following terms:
Ford RAV
Ford Buy Back
Lemon Law
MSRP to MSRP
Buy Back
Vehicle Replacement
Vehicle Refund
RAV worksheet
RAV Damages

You'll find a lot of info that will help to understand the process and will help with your situation and easily get you through the process. I've posted quite a bit regarding that process, even including hypothetical examples of how the MSRP vehicle replacement works as well as hypothetical worksheet figures.

The process can be done by anyone, without BBB and without an Attorney, as long as you have your facts, any supporting documentation, plus know and understand your Hone State's Lemon Law guidelines and provisions..

Lemon Laws vary in every State, but as I posted earlier, Ford and Ford RAV cannot and does not deviate from those laws at all. This is why it's important to know your State Lemon laws regarding any fees, taxes or costs that are the responsibility of the owner AND what is afforded to owners as far as consumer rights.

Also be sure to throughly review the Ford RAV worksheet once all the figures are put into place. DO NOT sign or agree to that worksheet until YOU are satisfied that the figures are 100% accurate and correct - especially if the vehicle is on an existing loan because pay off figures can change in the interim, which affects bottom line of the worksheet.

The process is frustrating, it is tedious and it is you doing a lot of the leg work... Been there done it - and I will add that quite a few other M6G Members have successfully completed a Buy Back with the guidance provided...

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