No love for coilovers kits?

[ZPD]

So I have been searching for options for suspension upgrades. I am not interested in being a slammed show car and I will be taking my car to HPDE several times a year with dedicated track tires (305 squared on 18x11 Apex EC-7) and it looks like a lot of people look down on coilovers and go right to suggesting FPP or some sort of BMR/Steeda combo.
It seems like there are 3 different groups of coil overs:

1. Sub $1000 (Raceland, SVE, SR, ICS etc)
2. $1000-$2000 (Feal, Fortune Auto, Pedders, Silvers etc)
3. $2000+ (Ohlins, KW, AFE etc)

They all come with Camber plates, dampening adjustability, and some sort of height adjustment. Group 2 and 3 generally have better height adjustment without the need to compress the spring. The Feal, Fortune-Auto, and Silvers have the option for custom spring rates, optional Swift springs, they are rebuildable/upgradable, and they will customize your valving for your spring rate and application. The group 3 kits have remote reservoirs, 2-way damping etc. Of course, this is all some rough generalization and several manufactures have different options and price points. I am not really looking at the group 3 (mostly due to cost and complexity) but there are a lot of options with some good features with group 2 so what am I missing here? Why aren't they more popular with the mustang crowd?

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[shogun32]

I am not really looking at the group 3 (mostly due to cost and complexity) but there are a lot of options with some good features with group 2 so what am I missing here?

because if you want actually GOOD suspension you're going to need to spend over $3000 and solidly Group 3. If you're gonna cheap out, then should go with Fortune Auto and have them custom built with *proper* springs and damping. For me that could work since they're just down the street but you're better off (buy once, cry once) going for the Ohlins that have been modified, or the $4000+ bracket (JRI, and various).

 

[ZPD]

I get it that Olins are considered the bomb but what I don't get is why most view the FRPP, or some sort of Steeda/BMR combo to be better than even the mid-grade coilover kits especially since they have options like adjustable dampening, spring rate customization, height adjustability etc. Just wondering if I am missing something fundamental.

 

[shogun32]

Just wondering if I am missing something fundamental.

yes, the damping of the FRPP track, Bilstein, or Steeda pro-Action adjustable is *CORRECT* (for some definition of the term). Your el-cheapo shocks are utter CRAP and WRONG on both spring rate selection and damping characteristics.

Can you shove Bilstein pistons and shim stacks into your units and put on the CORRECT springs from Hypercoil? Very likely yes (it's been done) and you can attempt to salvage this misadventure.

But unless you have a shock guy who works for cheap, it would be vastly better to beat the seller over the head with these units till he refunds you. And then go buy 'dumb' shocks. I recommend you try the B8 (shorter version of Bilstein B6) and Eibach's highest sag springs - the 'Pro's I think?

Or quit trying to imitate a ricer Civc dragging it's bodywork on the ground if you want a car that can actually handle.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I get it that Olins are considered the bomb but what I don't get is why most view the FRPP, or some sort of Steeda/BMR combo to be better than even the mid-grade coilover kits especially since they have options like adjustable dampening, spring rate customization, height adjustability etc. Just wondering if I am missing something fundamental.

Because your Group 2 isn't mid-grade its still very much low-grade and you have to pay $2k to get into anything decent mid-grade, and $3k-5k or more to get actually good stuff.

Quality shocks are more important than any other of the bits. The number or types of adjustments isn't what defines quality in a damper either. If you want a good AND adjustable shock, that just costs significantly more.

Most of these Group1/2 coilover kits are trying to make a profit catering to casuals who think a coilover design is somehow inherently a better design when its just not.... unless your the racer who wants to try different spring rates and use standardized spring dimensions. Of course those spring rates are far beyond what most people will tolerate on the street, which only leaves height adjustability as an advantage, and again, most of these are basically too low, which causes MORE body roll and reduces the suspension travel you need to absorb bumps and stick to the road.

So if you aren't budgeting for properly quality components, its often better to get a known good shock from a major shock manufacturer and then find a spring with the right combination of a higher spring rate and a slight drop.

 

[bnightstar]

So I have been searching for options for suspension upgrades. I am not interested in being a slammed show car and I will be taking my car to HPDE several times a year with dedicated track tires (305 squared on 18x11 Apex EC-7) and it looks like a lot of people look down on coilovers and go right to suggesting FPP or some sort of BMR/Steeda combo.
I am not really looking at the group 3 (mostly due to cost and complexity) but there are a lot of options with some good features with group 2 so what am I missing here? Why aren't they more popular with the mustang crowd?

Been in the same booth as you. 4-5 Time Attack events per season (have 10 under my bell). I did the same research as you want to go 305 or 295 square but on 19x11 wheels (in Europe I don't have access to enough 305 18 tires for the track).

People go with Shocks/Springe over cheap Coilovers because as people explained the cheap coilovers are actually worse than proper Shocks/Springs.

When I did my research (and added price into consideration) there are just a few options in my price bracket (between 2000-3000 usd): KW v3, JRZ Touring or RS One, MCS Single Adjustable and Ohlins R&T. It's better to go with single adjustable monotube shocks for your first coilovers set because that's simpler to adjust so less risk of adjusting yourself into trouble.

The MCS at the moment is the standard in that group (even Steeda use MCS RR2 on the number 20 car) however for me since I'm in Europe they are hard to ship. So that narrowed it down to the Euro brands (KW, JRZ and Ohlins):

JRZ are actually best for track driving because even the Touring package (F: 500 lbs / R: 900 lbs) is a racing shock valved for the street however this have a problem with the position of the end links mount point upfront with lead to braking end links (I don't want to deal with that).

KW is a brand that is just to common for my taste and the springs are actually progressive (not good for track driving) and softer rate than the JRZ which make them to soft for the track.

And finally my choice is the Ohlins R&T for few reasons:
1. Vorshlag tested this on there development car and the results were fantastic.
2. They handle well on the street.
3. They are inverted design (which mean they take unsprung mass out of the car).
4. They are easy accessible where I'm.
5. Spring rates (F: 515 lbs / R: 800 lbs) look good enough for a start.

I didn't order them yet because with how the pandemic develops there is a good chance I don't have access to a track this season.
Hope this helps.

 

[fatbillybob]

The guys above are all correct especially shogun. I went through this research coming from racing vettes. I had to go MCS vorschlag kit at big bucks to potentially win. The shock is everything to win but you have to know your use. You can get away with a cheaper shock if the duty is lower. IMO the best $2000 kit is Ground control. The second best is FP shock everyone like with the ground control $500 adjustable spring package and their camber plates. Shock valving has to be matched to spring rates. So if you look at the GC website if you order their spring package they ask you which shocks you are using because they know the shock dyno pot of the commonly available shocks. There is also a good Jpeg around this site on the different spring rates of all the diffferent packages and the gt350 etc that people use as proven targets.

bnightstar if you are talking about breaking endlinks I think the problem is the length. Lenght needed changes with the different shock packages due to height differences. You need the whiteline longer endlinks. Google on the Vorschlag website they tell you about this and they sell the whiteline adjustable endlinks for the MCS package they sell and that solves the problem.

Also OP when looking at spring rates know if that is divorced rear spring or on the coil. I forget the motion ratio but on the coil is like twice divorced.

 

[bnightstar]

bnightstar if you are talking about breaking endlinks I think the problem is the length. Lenght needed changes with the different shock packages due to height differences. You need the whiteline longer endlinks. Google on the Vorschlag website they tell you about this and they sell the whiteline adjustable endlinks for the MCS package they sell and that solves the problem.

The broken endlinks in question were steeda adjustable the topic is somewhere here in the forum. Didn't know that whiteline one are longer than other adjustable endlinks. But overall my understanding from the topic is that the JRZ endlink attachment point is just not on the correct place causing the endlink to be in an wired angel.

 

[fatbillybob]

Yes weird angle issue can be ameliorated often by offset of the endlink. This means sometimes you need the bottom link going in the bar one way and the top ling going in the shock body the other way. Same thing on the rear to clear the spring on the shock. On a divorced spring setup the clearance is greater from the rear link to the rear shock

 

[Flyhalf]

Hi. How many HPDE have you done already?
What is your expert level.?

 

[ZPD]

Hey guys- thanks for the feedback. I have decided to go with Steeda's Pro-Action struts and dual rate springs with Vorshlag's CC plates. While I still think that the group 2's in my above list could be a good system for the money (several of the companies offer custom valving for the dampeners and spring rates all tested on a shock dyno) I do recognize that they are pulling from the same parts bin as is used on many other cars and then packaging it fit the S550. There has been very little (that I could find) users of those systems on the S550 and I didn't feel like being a guinea pig on it ;) I would probably be swapping springs in and out to find what would work on my car. Many people have used Steeda and swear by it. Steeda was designed for the mustang it so that is reassuring. And thanks @shogun32 for bringing up the Steeda Pro-action struts, I missed that in my research.

Also OP when looking at spring rates know if that is divorced rear spring or on the coil. I forget the motion ratio but on the coil is like twice divorced.

Yes most of the Coil-over kits retained the divorced setup; they were just coilovers up front.

Hi. How many HPDE have you done already?
What is your expert level.?

6; I have been staying in the novice group until I got track tires. I will probably be going to intermediate this year.

Anyway- thanks all!

 

[Flyhalf]

Hey guys- thanks for the feedback. I have decided to go with Steeda's Pro-Action struts and dual rate springs with Voshlag's CC plates. While I still think that the group 2's in my above list could be a good system for the money (several of the companies offer custom valving for the dampeners and spring rates all tested on a shock dyno) I do recognize that they are pulling from the same parts bin as is used on many other cars and then packaging it fit the S550. There has been very little (that I could find) users of those systems on the S550 and I didn't feel like being a guinea pig on it ;) I would probably be swapping springs in and out to find what would work on my car. Many people have used Steeda and swear by it. Steeda was designed for the mustang it so that is reassuring. And thanks @shogun32 for bringing up the Steeda Pro-action struts, I missed that in my research.


Yes most of the Coil-over kits retained the divorced setup; they were just coilovers up front.


6; I have been staying in the novice group until I got track tires. I will probably be going to intermediate this year.

Anyway- thanks all!

I just track my 2018. I won the muscle cup with ford perf struts and BMR LINEAR HANDLING SPRINGS.
Honestly i would go with linear springs. Bmr offers the stiffer available for OEM struts.
All paired woth VORSHLAG camber plate.
Together you are looking at 1200$ top.
Also upgrade the front SWAY bar with BMR or eibach one. and use medium holes.

This is a solid. Very solid combo man.

I m now with JRi CORTEX COILOVERS. Coilovers doesn't make you faster on track. But allow you to run Serious aero because the stiffer springs. Also the coilovers isn't really a plug and play thing (like oem ones) it requests many many tries to perfect tune them.
Hope this help.
Alessandro

 

[shogun32]

go with Steeda's Pro-Action struts and dual rate springs

unless the car is for mostly track or you LIKE to drive a track-sprung car day in and day out I do NOT recommend the DR springs.

 

[EFI]

6; I have been staying in the novice group until I got track tires.

At this point, you are far far far away from actually outdriving your current setup and needing coilovers.

After you've done tires, brakes and have mastered those you can start thinking about doing suspension and matched aero.

 

[Flyhalf]

At this point, you are far far far away from actually outdriving your current setup and needing coilovers.

After you've done tires, brakes and have mastered those you can start thinking about doing suspension and matched aero.

This

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