Next gen Camaro supposedly being canceled (all threads merged)

Discussion in 'General Automotive Topics (non 6th Gen Mustang)' started by magnetticmadness, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo Super Moderator
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    Have they though? Ford haven't announced anything Mustang-specific. The on/off rumors of whether S650 is coming or not, are just that. Even Automobile mag just quote "an insider". The "Mach-E" is slightly different....they've certainly shown part of their hand there, but I don't class that as a Mustang (I'm still hoping for them NOT to put a pony on it). The only thing Ford have officially announced for Mustang is the hybrid......which they initially said was coming for 2020 (no indication whether that was model or calendar year).

    As for CAFE....thanks for that, I was not aware that was how its calculated. I guess, if the rumor of Mustang getting bigger is true, that would help offset CAFE to a small degree. I hope it stays at its current size though......it's a pretty big car as it is, especially as the rear seats are just about usable for small adults/teenagers.

    :)
     
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  2. EcoVert

    EcoVert Well-Known Member

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    I'm happy to say I told you so :cwl:
     
  3. EcoVert

    EcoVert Well-Known Member

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    So it's not making a profit after all and exclusivity doesn't mean anything
     
  4. EcoVert

    EcoVert Well-Known Member

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    Why would want to cancel this

    48092787682_3f3c74c43e_b-jpg.jpg
     
  5. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    I could have worded that better. When I say Ford has controlled their message, I’m really only referring to the decision to extend S550. The idea of whether S650 ever arrives is “industry shop talk” amongst forecasters. Seriously deep nerd-speak. By being up front about next ‘Stang coming off S550 with a new tophat (more nerd-speak), Ford has avoided the reverberations of someone in the supply community going “my S650 parts supply contract just got delayed / cancelled” turning into an MC&T “sky is falling” discussion.
     
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  6. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    Well played. Saw this when I went in for an oil change recently....some things can’t be unseen. Or forgiven.

    9009F723-FAE7-4D3A-ABBE-A5377BF2A4CB.jpeg
     
  7. Twin Turbo

    Twin Turbo Super Moderator
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    Ah, OK, thank you!

    For me though....I'll get excited once I start to see some properly camo'd S550 mules as that'll give a better indication of what's coming and when for Mustang. I'd expect the car to receive another facelift shortly before the hybrid version is launched (or launch the hybrid along with the next facelift. Again, Automobile seem to think it will be significant "the S550 Mustang will receive a major mid-cycle facelift to update its current D2C platform and reskin it with new sheetmetal from nose to tail, which will require some underbody work".

    Bring on those spyshots!
     
  8. DekiDoo

    DekiDoo Well-Known Member

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    Turns out ergonomics are a huge deal. One of the reasons i didn't get one wad because I couldn't fit our stroller through the trunk opening, but it fit in the mustang. Other than that, the Camaro is lighter, has better brakes, handles better, is better equipped for prolonged track use, has a much more advanced electronic limited slip... you see my point. They accelerate about the same, but Chevy took the Camaro in a much more performance oriented direction than Ford did with the Mustang, you can't deny that. But if the car is not comfortable for someone to drive they won't buy it. I don't know why GM would ax it though, they've sold 600,000 since the 5th gen, and even if they're only making $2,000 per car, which we know they're making more, that's still 1.2 billion they made profit. If they kill it, all those customers will jump ship to other brands with a very small percentage buying a Corvette.
     
  9. thehunterooo

    thehunterooo Well-Known Member

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  10. bluebeastsrt

    bluebeastsrt Oh boy

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    What all muscle cars will look like in 10 years. When they are based off of an SUV frame.:curse::angry:
     
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  11. FastCarFanBoy

    FastCarFanBoy Well-Known Member

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    C6 Gestapo chief Blaqwhole is out in full force...

    fake-news-camaro-is-fine-sales-mean-nothing.jpg
     
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  12. Tseg

    Tseg Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what happens to the 0-60 times as they launch with the engines off?
     
  13. Mikthehun1

    Mikthehun1 Well-Known Member

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    They might be short base cars, but they are WIDE. My mazda6 is not a small car, and the Mustang still tracks 3 inches wider. 75.4 inches rivals many crossovers and small SUVs.
     
  14. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    Still doesn’t cut it. They are still very small footprint compared to Edge, Explorer, et cetera. Plus trucks and utilities get lower targets just by benefit of being a truck or utility. If Mustang and Edge had exactly the same footprint area, Mustang would still have the more difficult target simply because it is in the Car CAFE fleet while Edge is in the Truck CAFE fleet. Add to that the performance engines and you have some real CAFE compliance issues. And now it is the ONLY Ford car in the Car CAFE fleet, so it either has to meet the Car CAFE target calculated for Ford as a company, or Lincoln has to add a fuel efficient car to offset it. Or Ford has to push a lot of electrification onto it.
     
  15. Mikthehun1

    Mikthehun1 Well-Known Member

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    So these regulations don't account for volume? Ford sells way more trucks than Mustangs. No matter how well it is selling, the Mustang is in a niche segment. If I were in charge of these things...
     
  16. jacknifetoaswan

    jacknifetoaswan Well-Known Member

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    Is it really that much smaller? The Mustang has a 107.1" wheelbase with 75.4" width, while Edge is 112.2" wheelbase with 75.9" width. Area-wise, that's 8075.34 sq. in. vice 8515.98 sq. in. Obviously, I don't know what the classification ranges are, but it doesn't seem like there's that much difference. Heck, even the Explorer is 112.6" wheelbase with 78.9" width, for an area of 8884.14 sq. in.

    JR
     
  17. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    MUCH? Really?

    The cars are nearly identical except for poor ergonomics in the Camaro. The performance differences are so minor they are pretty much unnoticeable. If the Camaro were MUCH better than the Mustang, Camaros would be selling better. I might have a new Camaro right now if they were MUCH better than the Mustang.

    I'm really willing to give up something in ergonomics for a car that's more fun to drive. But the reality is Camaro and Mustang are very similar when it comes to being fun to drive.
     
  18. EcoVert

    EcoVert Well-Known Member

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  19. martinjlm

    martinjlm Retired from GM

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    They’re in different pools. Truck standards are easier to meet than car standards, so even if they were exactly the same size, Mustang standard would be harder to meet. Add on top of that 480 - 760 hp engines vs 2.0T, 2.3T, and 2.7T engines and you have a much tougher time meeting the Car standard than Edge will have Meeting the Truck standard. This is a primary reason Ford ditched Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, and GM ditched Cruze. Standards are too hard to meet without adding a ton of tech that you can’t get the customer to pay for.
     
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  20. Interceptor

    Interceptor Daily Driver

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    Come on, don't you all pay attention!
    Remember GM is merging with Ford early next decade, so they don't need two poney cars. Since they plan on putting the Ford engine in the new mid-engine Corvette, surely there are plans to combine Camaro and Mustang into one fine vehicle. That is why you are not seeing any test mules.
     
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