New Mustang GT PP1 or New BMW M4 with Competition Package?

[Mikepol2]

Some comments from Car & Driver's review of a 2016 M4 Competition, which kind of mirror my point about it performing well but feeling kind of sterile or boring:

"...None of these transgressions keep the M4 from posting incredible performance numbers, but they do sap some of the fun from the process of extracting them..."

"...As you could reasonably expect from an option bundle with “competition” in its name, the Competition package intends to broaden the M4’s performance envelope. Well, not so fast..."

All this sounds like I'm trashing it, but I'm not, it's a great car for owners with a specific set of expectations, just like the Mustang (or any car, really). Cost not a factor, I'd personally rather keep my as-modified 2018 Mustang than trade it for my neighbor's M4.

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[m3incorp]

I'd ask if we could make it the 2021 models......... I would definitely pick the M4 then. I've had the M cars with the Dinan upgrades and they can be fast. I'm no fanboy of any brand, but do really believe that there are a lot of areas I didn't get my money's worth in certain cars that I have owned or own. For anywhere near $50k, I don't expect to have plastic anywhere (yes I know there are a lot of pricier cars with plastic), I expect panels that align, paint with no flaws, a supposedly upgraded audio system that actually sounds like an upgraded audio system. I still like my current car....but hey if it's going to be given to me....I will never make excuses for flaws (doesn't matter which car). The M4 has flaws too; so there is that. To me, it has less. Ahhhh heck, this is just imaginary, so I will not dwell on it .

 

[fatbillybob]

Shifts as fast as a twin clutch? Definitely not!
I have a My20 auto GT and there is a delay when you hit the paddle. The twin clutch gear changes are almost instant. There is a reason why most of the worlds high performance cars run a twin clutch setup.
I’m speaking strictly performance not trying to diy fix your tranny lol
Don’t get me wrong the A10 is not bad at all but coming from a twin clutch into this you can definitely feel the difference.

Yes A10 shifts just as fast and acts just like manual or dct holding into redline but it is a cheap slushbox. Bmw pioneered the high pressure good xhifting auto but the a10 is another level. I compare my 2017 cayman w dct called pdk and a19 just as good. The mustang is cheaper to wreck and cheaper to blow up so I race a mustang w a10. Other buds w m3,4 w dct have dumb stuff go bad and kills their race day. A10 is reliable. Look at reports and gm,ford build targets for the A10. Pdk porsche was the target. Gm,ford nailed it. In fact A10 is fsster than pdk in 1st 4 gears. I'm not making this up. Google it

 

[Yareen1]

I have a 17 gt pp 6 speed, i drove a friends m4 pretty extensively, honestly i was very excited but tottally let down by it.

1. the DCT was so underwhelming. the DSG in my 2016 GTI put the DCT to shame in terms of snappiness, i was extremely underwhelmed

2. engine note, it sounds OK at best, nothing compared the beauty of a coyote 5.0. nice low end torque, has power forsure, 5.0 feels like it breathes more, feels more wild, exciting, tantalizing (ok ill stop).

3. it does feel tighter compared to the performance pack gt (mine is a 17 so no magnaride) however, my ride was smoother imo, im on steeda springs. So it felt a little but more put together but harsher ride

4. interior - no touchscreen on that m4, i dislike the interior of bmw very much, but thats subjective.

overall I would do a 2020 gt pp1 with magnaride over the m4 forsure, just a better car imo.

 

[S550_Newbie]

You unknowingly saved an old wealthy oil baron from choking on French fries and he offers you one or the other and you have to keep whichever one you pick for 5 years.

5 years? Having bought and owned an E46 as a daily driver, you should lease it and turn it back in before the warranty expires. My car was just out of warranty and this happened:
1. Cam Shaft sensor went bad
2. Driver window stopped working
3. Power steering went out and was leaking everywhere all the time
4. Serpentine belt snapped several times
5. One by one within 6 months every other window stopped working, I was stuck without being able to open any windows

It was great when it was new. But there is a reason the private BMW mechanic I used told me it stands for "bring my wallet." He also told me that there are very limited aftermarket parts companies that even offer spare parts, then he told me the power steering pump was $740.00. Maybe things have changed since then but that lasting impression turned me off to BMW for pretty much ever.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Shifts as fast as a twin clutch? Definitely not!
I have a My20 auto GT and there is a delay when you hit the paddle. The twin clutch gear changes are almost instant. There is a reason why most of the worlds high performance cars run a twin clutch setup.
I’m speaking strictly performance not trying to diy fix your tranny lol
Don’t get me wrong the A10 is not bad at all but coming from a twin clutch into this you can definitely feel the difference.

The A10 shifts gears under heavy throttle in a tenth of a second. That is about as fast as a DCT. The delay when hitting the paddle is simply paddle response, and isn't what people refer to when they are discussing how fast a transmission can change gears.

That said, I also have an A10 GT and the delay when using the paddles under light acceleration is very annoying. I hate it in 1st gear. It sounds like I'm trying to race even under very light throttle since the car still revs to 3000+ rpm because it takes so long to register the shift after pressing the paddle at ~2k rpm. With the low gearing the car gains a lot of rpms even under light throttle. Oh, you want to shift from 1st to 2nd at 1600 rpm under light throttle so you don't sound like you're trying to race the Toyota crossover next to you while pulling away from the light? Sorry, the computer won't let you. Oh, now you're turning right after a stop sign and want to press the paddle? Sorry, it's not where it is supposed to be, so you wait until it's back where you can press it with your right hand, but the car is now at 3500 rpm (under very light throttle) and by the time it changes it will be at 4500 rpm due to the long delay; all just to get out of 1st gear after a turn.

I've figured out work-arounds (i.e., take my foot off the gas pedal under light acceleration when I press the paddle to shift into 2nd gear to prevent the rpms from continuing to build), but they aren't smooth.

However, I live with those annoyances because under medium to heavy throttle, the paddle delay is pretty short in any gear, and it shifts very quickly. And, the gear ratios are perfectly chosen and suit the powerband of this car very well.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I think I'd go M4 Competition, since it's different than what I already have and worth quite a bit more money. And, I'm sure big power gains are relatively cheap.

 

[xSouthSyde]

The A10 shifts gears under heavy throttle in a tenth of a second. That is about as fast as a DCT. The delay when hitting the paddle is simply paddle response, and isn't what people refer to when they are discussing how fast a transmission can change gears.

That said, I also have an A10 GT and the delay when using the paddles under light acceleration is very annoying. I hate it in 1st gear. It sounds like I'm trying to race even under very light throttle since the car still revs to 3000+ rpm because it takes so long to register the shift after pressing the paddle at ~2k rpm. With the low gearing the car gains a lot of rpms even under light throttle. Oh, you want to shift from 1st to 2nd at 1600 rpm under light throttle so you don't sound like you're trying to race the Toyota crossover next to you while pulling away from the light? Sorry, the computer won't let you. Oh, now you're turning right after a stop sign and want to press the paddle? Sorry, it's not where it is supposed to be, so you wait until it's back where you can press it with your right hand, but the car is now at 3500 rpm (under very light throttle) and by the time it changes it will be at 4500 rpm due to the long delay; all just to get out of 1st gear after a turn.

I've figured out work-arounds (i.e., take my foot off the gas pedal under light acceleration when I press the paddle to shift into 2nd gear to prevent the rpms from continuing to build), but they aren't smooth.

However, I live with those annoyances because under medium to heavy throttle, the paddle delay is pretty short in any gear, and it shifts very quickly. And, the gear ratios are perfectly chosen and suit the powerband of this car very well.

I’ve only had my GT for a month so I haven’t tracked it but the issue I have with it is that there are some nice wide open roads near me with some big round abouts and even in my Golf R which I just sold I could fly thru them at good speed without having to touch the brakes by being in the perfect gear .
In the Mustang , the delay when I try to drop down gears is making me change gears earlier. I know I’m still learning the characteristics of the vehicle but I feel that the Golf R’s downshifts were snappier but you guys are telling me that the Mustang changes gears just as fast so I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong

 

[m3incorp]

I've learned to try to never compare two things that I don't have first-hand experience with. As they say, those of us that have never tasted something other than what we have, think what we have is the greatest...think cigars, wine, meat, Ferrari's, you name it. I'm not saying the M4 is better but without having spent time with both cars, then most will default to what they know.

 

[fatbillybob]

You guys do know the bmw pipes in fake engine noise through the stereo speakers...

The coyote noise is the real deal. Cubic inches!!!

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I’ve only had my GT for a month so I haven’t tracked it but the issue I have with it is that there are some nice wide open roads near me with some big round abouts and even in my Golf R which I just sold I could fly thru them at good speed without having to touch the brakes by being in the perfect gear .
In the Mustang , the delay when I try to drop down gears is making me change gears earlier. I know I’m still learning the characteristics of the vehicle but I feel that the Golf R’s downshifts were snappier but you guys are telling me that the Mustang changes gears just as fast so I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong

Yeah, I agree the downshifts are lackluster using the paddle shifters. You might try simply shifting it into "S" and jabbing the gas momentarily to get it to drop down in auto mode without the paddles. It should then hold the lower gear. I've found that when downshifting at higher rpms the downshifts are a bit quicker. In the lower rev range they tend to be slow. I have a round about that I drive through all the time as well and manually downshift early as well. Because the gears are so close together, dropping two gears doesn't get you very far (i.e., 8th to 6th), I'll instead hit it 3 or 4 times quickly, and it'll skip gears to get to the final lower gear (i.e., 8th to 4th). But don't hit it too quick, otherwise it won't always register. Upshifts in auto or paddle mode under heavy throttle are quick, though.

 

[fatbillybob]

BMW mechanic I used told me it stands for "bring my wallet." He also told me that there are very limited aftermarket parts companies that even offer spare parts, then he told me the power steering pump was $740.00. Maybe things have changed since then but that lasting impression turned me off to BMW for pretty much ever.

No they have not! In fact worse since the bumper to bumper warrantee was decreased to 3 years non-transferable! I'm on my last BMW now and will not be buying a new one. The biggest turn off to the M4 was the piped in fake engine noise you can't delete! What performance car needs fake noise?

 

[fatbillybob]

The A10 shifts gears under heavy throttle in a tenth of a second. That is about as fast as a DCT. The delay when hitting the paddle is simply paddle response, and isn't what people refer to when they are discussing how fast a transmission can change gears.

That said, I also have an A10 GT and the delay when using the paddles under light acceleration is very annoying. I hate it in 1st gear. It sounds like I'm trying to race even under very light throttle since the car still revs to 3000+ rpm because it takes so long to register the shift after pressing the paddle at ~2k rpm. With the low gearing the car gains a lot of rpms even under light throttle. Oh, you want to shift from 1st to 2nd at 1600 rpm under light throttle so you don't sound like you're trying to race the Toyota crossover next to you while pulling away from the light? Sorry, the computer won't let you. Oh, now you're turning right after a stop sign and want to press the paddle? Sorry, it's not where it is supposed to be, so you wait until it's back where you can press it with your right hand, but the car is now at 3500 rpm (under very light throttle) and by the time it changes it will be at 4500 rpm due to the long delay; all just to get out of 1st gear after a turn.

I've figured out work-arounds (i.e., take my foot off the gas pedal under light acceleration when I press the paddle to shift into 2nd gear to prevent the rpms from continuing to build), but they aren't smooth.

However, I live with those annoyances because under medium to heavy throttle, the paddle delay is pretty short in any gear, and it shifts very quickly. And, the gear ratios are perfectly chosen and suit the powerband of this car very well.

Sorry dude that's user error. You will not like a DCT any better. Drive it like an automatic or drive it with paddles like a manual with authority then the A10 will do as you ask.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Sorry dude that's user error. You will not like a DCT any better. Drive it like an automatic or drive it with paddles like a manual with authority then the A10 will do as you ask.

It's not really user error; probably more of a misapplication of the paddles. Under light throttle there's probably no point in using the paddles, but I enjoy using them most of the time (except for the 1st gear gripes I have). I agree, driven with authority, the paddles finally wake up. Under light throttle, they are half asleep.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

No they have not! In fact worse since the bumper to bumper warrantee was decreased to 3 years non-transferable! I'm on my last BMW now and will not be buying a new one. The biggest turn off to the M4 was the piped in fake engine noise you can't delete! What performance car needs fake noise?

I've heard lots of stories about BMW unreliability, so I wouldn't buy one either. Now as a gift with a warranty? That's a different story in this poll.

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