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New Motor Due to Tick and Explanation to why it happens...

Enzo

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Hey Guys!

I wanted to provide some insight on where the ticking noise comes from exactly.

This occurred on my 2016 GT PP1 and I ended up getting a new motor after some back and forth with Ford. The tick originally started after my 2nd or 3rd mustang, and it was right after it also happened to a friend of mine who had a s197 GT. It started pretty light only could here it from time to time. I first began my exam with opening up the oil filter, which some very light metal shavings, but was difficult to see. I drove it for while until it was time for another oil change and the second go around I went back from mobil1 to motorcraft and also added a BG oil additive that Ford sells. I let that run for about 1k miles and the tick then slowly started getting worse. After it became so pronounced that I not only heard it from inside the garage or driving next to a wall or car, but it would be loud enough that I could hear it sitting inside my car. I then took it to the dealer, I knew before going there that this wasn't normal mechanics for the motor and that something catastrophic would eventually happen. When I arrived at the dealer I had already prepared myself to be very defensive and brought in all the research I could that I had done on the car. Dealer's first repose was naturally to say that it was normal. Right from there we got into a little argument, but none the less back onto the tick. I told the dealer it came from the crankshaft area and specifically on piston 8 area. Dealer did a bore scope and found very light scoring on the walls (which I found out at the very end when the motor replacement was offered, and not when they actually did it. They told me they didn't find anything alarming.) and keep in mind this is only with 13k Miles at this point. I told them I'm going to leave my car keys with them and do not want the car back until it is fixed. They kept it for about a week and said they couldn't find anything, I proceeded to tell them I will not pick the car up until they find a solution or I will file suit. They then told me that they will have to open the motor up, and my response to them was that I had no issue with that, but they would need to have to supply me with a new motor if they were going to open the motor apart for their own research. They agreed since they knew there was a real issue at this point in the game.

What they found was very interesting and makes a lot of sense on the ticking noise....

When they opened the motor up, they noticed that the crankshaft had random extra clearance spacing causing it from time to time to touch. Which explains the sporadic sound of the ticking noise. They said they noticed as much as double the clearance. My theory on this since a lot of people are experiencing this, seems that Ford has a major manufacturing issue issue with the bottom end on these, it also makes sense as to why the GT350 does not have the same issue because it has a completely different bottom end from the coyote 5.0L.

That was my experience with it, now I do own a 2018 Mustang GT PP1. Irregardless of the tick I really enjoy the mustang, and that is why I went back to it. My 16 I ended up selling due to feeling uncomfortable to it being opened up and having a replaced motor. If my 18 repeats history, I will end up filing a lemon law on it and probably leave Ford all together until they can get this sorted out.

For those in Florida, I went to Ron Norris Titusville to get this work done. After we got passed the fact that this wasn't normal, they were very helpful in getting my motor fixed.
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Enzo

Enzo

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Here is a video of my tick and oil filter.



 

stangman638

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I also believe this, the thing I can't seem to wrap my head around is.. if it is a clearance issue why wasn't the noise present day 1 on driving the car? Why does it happen after 300, 1000, 3k miles?

Surely if clearance was an issue it should be heard day 1?

Thoughts?
 
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Enzo

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I also believe this, the thing I can't seem to wrap my head around is.. if it is a clearance issue why wasn't the noise present day 1 on driving the car? Why does it happen after 300, 1000, 3k miles?

Surely if clearance was an issue it should be heard day 1?

Thoughts?
My reasoning is that once the motor breaks in, the parts eventually start changing position by fractions of a millimeter and settling in which then causes the noise to appear.
 

stangman638

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My reasoning is that once the motor breaks in, the parts eventually start changing position by fractions of a millimeter and settling in which then causes the noise to appear.
Than what about the guys that have it start after 8-10k miles. surely the engine has settled in?
 

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Enzo

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Than what about the guys that have it start after 8-10k miles. surely the engine has settled in?
Honestly that’s a great question! Mine happened at around 13k. I read that they have different shifts at the factory where they swap machines. I’m not sure how true that it is. Every motor is different though.
 

stangman638

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Honestly that’s a great question! Mine happened at around 13k. I read that they have different shifts at the factory where they swap machines. I’m not sure how true that it is. Every motor is different though.
I spoke with a master tech at the dealership today, just talking to him about tunes etc. I brought up the ticking noise and he said Ford is saying it's a normal characteristic, he said quite a few customers have complained about it, they had only replaced 1 engine for the 18/19 year models. I think its nothing to worry about. I just had my oil changed t fully synthetic today... Definitely a bit more noisy than the blend I had in, but unless I start burning oil or something that points to an obvious problem, my mindset is the tick is adding powah!

I think people are tying the tick into specific problems they are having .. ie scored cams .. cylinders or some other issue.. So many of these cars tick, any issue there car has I think is being thrown in with it must be tick related. Condor fixed his with the ac belt tension kit..

My car has a chirp like noise that is coming from the front end area.. Like a pulley/belt is not aligned.. I'm more worried about that than the tick to be honest..
 
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I spoke with a master tech at the dealership today, just talking to him about tunes etc. I brought up the ticking noise and he said Ford is saying it's a normal characteristic, he said quite a few customers have complained about it, they had only replaced 1 engine for the 18/19 year models. I think its nothing to worry about. I just had my oil changed t fully synthetic today... Definitely a bit more noisy than the blend I had in, but unless I start burning oil or something that points to an obvious problem, my mindset is the tick is adding powah!

I think people are tying the tick into specific problems they are having .. ie scored cams .. cylinders or some other issue.. So many of these cars tick, any issue there car has I think is being thrown in with it must be tick related. Condor fixed his with the ac belt tension kit..

My car has a chirp like noise that is coming from the front end area.. Like a pulley/belt is not aligned.. I'm more worried about that than the tick to be honest..
Ford will never admit to the problem, and if they do they would be losing hundreds of millions of dollars. I’m considering using liquimolly, as it helps prevent the tick and lubricates the motor. It helps for motors with tight clearance like the coyote.
 

thelostotter

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What dimension was out of spec? I’m not sure what random extra clearance spacing means.
 
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What dimension was out of spec? I’m not sure what random extra clearance spacing means.
The crankshaft seating had random clearance.
 

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What they found was very interesting and makes a lot of sense on the ticking noise....

When they opened the motor up, they noticed that the crankshaft had random extra clearance spacing causing it from time to time to touch. Which explains the sporadic sound of the ticking noise. They said they noticed as much as double the clearance
The crankshaft seating had random clearance.
Did the the mechanic also check for excessive rod side clearance?

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/how-excessive-is-this-rod.108361/
 
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Enzo

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Yes! Thank you for reminding me. It also had that as well.
It's been my feeling that excessive rod side clearance has been the cause to the typewriter tick. Could also be caused by excessive crankshaft play. This would explain why an additive like XL-17 (that Ford use to sell and recommend for the ticking) or Ceratec quiets down the ticking.
 
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Enzo

Enzo

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It's been my feeling that excessive rod side clearance has been the cause to the typewriter tick. Could also be caused by excessive crankshaft play. This would explain why an additive like XL-17 (that Ford use to sell and recommend for the ticking) or Ceratec quiets down the ticking.
I’m glad you brought up the Ceratec. What are your thoughts on it? Do you think it’s worth putting in and does it really protect the motor?
 

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My take on the sound/tone of the typewriter tick is that it's something valvetrain related. To me it sounds just like a pushrod engine that a hydraulic lifter is going south in, and there's a ton of valvetrain lash. Another theory is that it's hydraulic timing chain tensioner related, and there's intermittent slop in the chain guide that is "driven" by the tensioner - seems to me the cam sprockets aren't completely/perfectly round, which has to be interesting in terms of the tensioners keeping things in check.

I've never heard excessive rod side clearance to make that sort of sound, oil pressure "bleeding" between rods will dampen most if not all of that (you'd have to have a ton of side clearance to hear it, IMO). A bad rod bearing with excessive clearance to the crank journal is close, but not quite it either.
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