New Michelin PS4 (front) and old PS4S (rear). Traction control problems?

[Michael_vroomvroom]

Due to a mistake by a shop I won't use again, and me not double-checking there and then, some months ago I ended up with Michelin "PS4" on the front, rather than the "PS4S"s I ordered. On the rear I still have old, but usable PS4S. I later read PS4 and PS4S are not supposed to be very different (but PS4S is better), so I thought it's not worth the aggravation to pursue the matter further with an unwilling shop that blames their vendor, and blah-blah.

Anyway, today I had my first trackday with the PS4 (front only). I'm still novice enough that I need to do a few (or many) sessions before I feel comfortable switching from sports to track mode, and I was surprised that the traction control indicator came on a lot more ("and I mean a lot") than when I were at the same track half a year ago with PS4S' all around.

As far as lap-times are concerned I cannot complain, as I easily bested my previous best by one second without even trying during my first session in track mode (seat time), but I wonder about the reason for traction control kicking in so much more. There and then I thought "ah, sucks. Must be because PS4 sucks", but thinking some more about it on the way home I wonder if that's wrong thinking. I'm wondering if the problem is instead the in-balance of the new PS4 tires on the front perhaps griping a lot better than the old, but still good enough for some more trackdays, PS4S' on the rear? Do the PS4 on the front perhaps manage to maintain the grip, and the problem is instead that the more worn PS4S on the rear start sliding and that's why traction control kicks in?

I replaced my front PS4S' because they were considerably more worn out than the rears, but thought I'd save some money by keeping the rears for a few more miles and track days.

Comments from the more knowledgeable members?

Sponsored

 

[NightmareMoon]

Kinda hard to say without being in the car which end is slipping. Could be either. What phase of the corner are you getting into the traction control?

(I didn’t even know they made PS4-no S tires)

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

Kinda hard to say without being in the car which end is slipping. Could be either. What phase of the corner are you getting into the traction control?

It was the phase shortly before the apex. It felt like it was the front slipping (thus my initial reaction on cursing the tires a bit), but unfortunately I'm not competent enough (yet, I hope) to tell for sure whether it was the front or rear slipping.

It would be nice if the speed sensor data was made available via the OBD-2 port, but I guess not.

 

[Ewheels]

I think it's more likely that you are getting more comfortable with the car, getting on gas sooner, and therefore TC kicking in more often.

I had a similar experience when I was starting out. First couple track days (and in Sport mode) I never saw TC kick in. Then as I got more comfortable with the car and started picking up speed, I saw TC kick in constantly. Then tried out Track mode and it made a world of difference. No more throttle cuts.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I think it's more likely that you are getting more comfortable with the car, getting on gas sooner, and therefore TC kicking in more often.

I had a similar experience when I was starting out. First couple track days (and in Sport mode) I never saw TC kick in. Then as I got more comfortable with the car and started picking up speed, I saw TC kick in constantly. Then tried out Track mode and it made a world of difference. No more throttle cuts.

Just be careful with Track mode, as on some cars (mine for example) it makes the throttle mapping a bit of a hair trigger. Makes it harder to drive smoothly.

Once you get some more experience, eventually the idea is to phase out the traction control, but that's not something you need to rush into.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

I think it's more likely that you are getting more comfortable with the car, getting on gas sooner, and therefore TC kicking in more often.

It is possible of course. Since I did not spin off the track (always pleasant avoiding that) and my laptimes did seem to have improved, perhaps it was indeed the case rather than my obscure hypothesis.

I rarely have the opportunity to drive at this last track (e-x-p-e-n-s-i-v-e normally), so will see how things go next time I'm back at my regular track.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[K4fxd]

Since I did not spin off the track

Might have been advance track kicking in.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Just be careful with Track mode, as on some cars (mine for example) it makes the throttle mapping a bit of a hair trigger. Makes it harder to drive smoothly.

I thought it was Sport mode that had the exaggerated throttle tip-in response. Big response at low pedal inputs ought to imply lower response rates as you operate at larger pedal inputs.

Though I guess at some mid-throttle point the track calibration would have to start being slightly more aggressive than Sport if they're both going to hit 100% throttle at 100% pedal.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Seems Tire Rack hasn't gotten around to testing the PS4, so there isn't much to go on regarding relative grip between it and the PS4S. Let alone however much heat cycling has affected the PS4S rear tires.


Norm

 

[StangTime]

Just be careful with Track mode, as on some cars (mine for example) it makes the throttle mapping a bit of a hair trigger. Makes it harder to drive smoothly.

I thought it was Sport mode that had the exaggerated throttle tip-in response. Big response at low pedal inputs ought to imply lower response rates as you operate at larger pedal inputs.

Though I guess at some mid-throttle point the track calibration would have to start being slightly more aggressive than Sport if they're both going to hit 100% throttle at 100% pedal.


Norm

Norm is correct. Sport mode has the exaggerated throttle tip-in response. Track and Normal have a linear response but track mode turns off some of the nannies.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Norm is correct. Sport mode has the exaggerated throttle tip-in response. Track and Normal have a linear response but track mode turns off some of the nannies.

i’ll test it again on my ‘16. Its been a while

 

[Ewheels]

Norm is correct. Sport mode has the exaggerated throttle tip-in response. Track and Normal have a linear response but track mode turns off some of the nannies.

I'm not so sure about that. Are there official graphs from Ford anywhere?
At least from what I can subjectively feel, Track mode throttle response seems identical to Sport, not Normal.

 

[K4fxd]

I can verify that on 3rd gen, auto and manual, both sport and track have the same pedal map stock

 

[StangTime]

I'm not so sure about that. Are there official graphs from Ford anywhere?
At least from what I can subjectively feel, Track mode throttle response seems identical to Sport, not Normal.

Ok, I dug this up. Stock throttle mapping curves provided by HP Tuners. Sport is using the same mapping as Track (If these are in fact accurate). But when I drive in Track mode I swear I don't have the same jerky throttle response that Sport gives. My car has the Ford Performance Tune with the GT350 throttle so I am thinking that it likely isn't the same mapping as shown here:

Normal on the left, Snow/Wet in the middle, Sport and Track on the right.

 

[Ewheels]

Ok, I dug this up. Stock throttle mapping curves provided by HP Tuners. Sport is using the same mapping as Track (If these are in fact accurate). But when I drive in Track mode I swear I don't have the same jerky throttle response that Sport gives. My car has the Ford Performance Tune with the GT350 throttle so I am thinking that it likely isn't the same mapping as shown here:

Normal on the left, Snow/Wet in the middle, Sport and Track on the right.

That looks right, thanks for supplying graphs.
I've gotten used to sport and track mode, no issues for me. Whenever I do try out normal mode, I constantly mess up downshifts cause it doesn't rev as much as what I'm used to

Sponsored