New LT1 V8 trim for 2020 Camaro

[tokuzumi]

*Checks the Lincoln website for vehicle names.......

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[JohnnyUtah]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the car or its option packages, just agreeing with others that the alphanumeric naming is not that good.

I like the GT350 origination story and the fact that there is one. Is there a cool 1LE origination story? Something about putting one lame engine into the car?

Yeah, they created the package to be competitive in a racing series back in the 80s. I think that is pretty cool. You can google it if are actually interested. It's a regular production option to make a showroom car much more track capable. I appreciate the fact that this exists on a run of the mill SS and I dont have to pay the Shelby markup for similar performance. I also appreciate that Chevy makes top tier performance accessible. I get that some people want exclusivity, but I don't. Not on a car I'm going to beat up on track.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

GM screwed up with the badging ever which way. The first Z28 was a track car. Then it was just a mid level do nothing car in the 80s. Then it went to super expensive Track car again. Now the track cars are 1LE’s. Until they are Z28s again! The SS badge meant you had a bad mofo in the sixties. But 10 years ago. You could get front wheel drive SS caprices or even worse. A Malibu Max SS. Anyone remember that abortion? GM slapped a Big ole SS badge on everything. Today if your lucky enough to spot a SS badge. You gotta squint your eyes just to see it. Like GM is ashamed of the badges. So they try to hide em. You get a tiny SS in the grill. Off set of course. And a tiny SS badge on the back. It’s so small. You don’t know if it’s an SS or LS? til your about 3 feet away. And now your going to get an LT1 badge for a cheap Camaro. Wasn’t LT1 also an engine designation? At this point. Who knows??? Camaro nut huggers can’t even keep up. But with all that said. At least their cheap performance car gets a V8. All we got was a 4 banger and a few 2.3 badges.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

GM screwed up with the badging ever which way. The first Z28 was a track car. Then it was just a mid level do nothing car in the 80s. Then it went to super expensive Track car again. Now the track cars are 1LE’s. Until they are Z28s again! The SS badge meant you had a bad mofo in the sixties. But 10 years ago. You could get front wheel drive SS caprices or even worse. A Malibu Max SS. Anyone remember that abortion? GM slapped a Big ole SS badge on everything. Today if your lucky enough to spot a SS badge. You gotta squint your eyes just to see it. Like GM is ashamed of the badges. So they try to hide em. You get a tiny SS in the grill. Off set of course. And a tiny SS badge on the back. It’s so small. You don’t know if it’s an SS or LS? til your about 3 feet away. And now your going to get an LT1 badge for a cheap Camaro. Wasn’t LT1 also an engine designation? At this point. Who knows??? Camaro nut huggers can’t even keep up. But with all that said. At least their cheap performance car gets a V8. All we got was a 4 banger and a few 2.3 badges.

Ha ha. No doubt they whored out the SS badge for a while. Jesus. If I remeber correctly there was even an HHR SS with a 4 cylinder. Wtf

Then again, my car is debadged, so I guess people will have to know their shit. Car badges are only dick magnets anyway, so who gives a shit? You could have a GT350R and most people would think a 328i is more exclusive.

Then again most GT350Rs only make it to cars and coffee anyway so that dudes can jerk off on their unused sport cup 2s. I've seriously only seen one 350R at the track. It came on a trailer, did one session, then left. Ha. Like it's a fucking GT2RS or something. I'm sure some people track them, but not many. I do see a good number of regular 350s. They sound good. Lots of stangs too, but all heavily modded. Have yet to see a PP2. Probably still installing coolers.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Who cares? On this forum. People will fight you for putting a Cobra badge on a V6.

 

[EcoVert]

GM screwed up with the badging ever which way. The first Z28 was a track car. Then it was just a mid level do nothing car in the 80s. Then it went to super expensive Track car again. Now the track cars are 1LE’s. Until they are Z28s again! The SS badge meant you had a bad mofo in the sixties. But 10 years ago. You could get front wheel drive SS caprices or even worse. A Malibu Max SS. Anyone remember that abortion? GM slapped a Big ole SS badge on everything. Today if your lucky enough to spot a SS badge. You gotta squint your eyes just to see it. Like GM is ashamed of the badges. So they try to hide em. You get a tiny SS in the grill. Off set of course. And a tiny SS badge on the back. It’s so small. You don’t know if it’s an SS or LS? til your about 3 feet away. And now your going to get an LT1 badge for a cheap Camaro. Wasn’t LT1 also an engine designation? At this point. Who knows??? Camaro nut huggers can’t even keep up. But with all that said. At least their cheap performance car gets a V8. All we got was a 4 banger and a few 2.3 badges.

Ha ha. No doubt they whored out the SS badge for a while. Jesus. If I remeber correctly there was even an HHR SS with a 4 cylinder. Wtf

Hay don't you know that GM change the meaning of the SS badge about 10 to 15 years ago. SS means Stickley Styling.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Who cares? On this forum. People will fight you for putting a Cobra badge on a V6.

Sounds similar to the public shaming that happens on the BMW forums for adding ///M badges

Then again, it is lame to do.

 

[martinjlm]

According to Ford and GM's own press releases.
The A-10 was developed by Ford.
The A-9 was developed by GM.

Ford chose to not use the A-9 in fwd vehicles.
GM did choose to use the A-10 in rwd cars and trucks.

It would be more accurate to say that Ford LED development of the A10 and GM LED development of the A9 because both were free and clear to do FINAL DEVELOPMENT of their own versions of each. This is why the ZL1 10A is different from the SS / V6 10A which is different from the Mustang 10A. Where they are similar is in the design of their power flow (how the electronics, fluid flow in valve bodies, and directional rotation of planetary gears and sun gears works).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford-GM_10-speed_automatic_transmission

"This transmission is part of a joint-venture between General Motors and Ford Motor Company to design and engineer two transmissions, a longitudinal 10-speed transmission and a transverse 9-speed trans-axle. Each company will manufacture its own unique version of the transmissions in their own factories."

I do recall seeing Ford was not happy with the 9 speed for FWD applications, so they went another route.

They didn’t so much go another route. They pretty much made some tweaks in the final calibrations. Keep in mind that for planetary transmissions the number of gears does not correspond to a physical number of gears, like with manuals and DCTs. Number of gear ranges is determined by combinations of rotational patterns of the planetary gears and the sun gears they revolve around as well as which internal clutches get energized and which are not energized in order to make that happen. Ford decided that in the final development, they didn’t need as many gear ranges, so they tweaked the calibration. It may or may not have involved changes in hard parts. I don’t think they would have been able to reduce a planetary set by going down only one gear, but maybe they did find a way to do that.

Agreed on the demise of the Camaro being GM's own fault. Rumor is, this was almost the design of the 6th gen Camaro;

Buick dressed it up with their logo, and it was shown for a few hours at one car show. It was quickly whisked away, and never seen/heard from again.

Buick Avista. Apparently it received a lot of praise, and the internet had their bodies ready. But even letting this see the light of day apparently ruffled some feathers in the higher-ups at GM, to the point where the Avista is a 4 letter word at GM.

Soooo not true. It was introduced during the Buick press conference at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. I was at the press conference. It received all sorts of design awards at the show. It was on the floor the entire run of the show. Then it was shown again, repainted red for the Beijing Auto Show. I was at that one too. There was no controversy around the concept. If there was, Buick would have never been okayed to have a press conference to introduce it. The biggest “controversy” was over should it be built for China, US and China, or not at all.

The A9 is for FWD applications Ford decided to use a version of the A9 but it's and A8, eight speed instead

^^ This

 

[EcoVert]

http://fordauthority.com/2018/04/fords-new-8-speed-transmission-is-gms-9-speed-minus-a-gear/

According to a recent article published by Automotive News, Ford didn’t see enough extra efficiency from the new transmission’s ninth gear to justify the extra cost and weight. Ford has instead come up with a pair of eight-speed automatics to serve in the GM transmission’s place.

Granted, one of those transmissions is based on GM’s nine-speed, with one forward drive ratio simply eliminated

 

[9secondko]

I've never heard anyone discuss the cool factor of RPO codes.

You can have whatever opinion you want, but the fact is the 1LE packages are legit and mean business. Hard to say that about the PP1/2. The GT350 is rad, but the story of the origination of its name is kinda lame. Still bums me out that they even made them without the track pack for a while. You know about that first hand if I remember correctly.

I guess if they named it ZXR maybe it would be cooler. Wait... no, XZR. Yeah.

They do suck and are not cool. It just demonstrates poor branding.

 

[thehunterooo]

I honestly feel bad for blaqhole:(

 

[Hack]

Yeah, they created the package to be competitive in a racing series back in the 80s. I think that is pretty cool. You can google it if are actually interested. It's a regular production option to make a showroom car much more track capable. I appreciate the fact that this exists on a run of the mill SS and I dont have to pay the Shelby markup for similar performance. I also appreciate that Chevy makes top tier performance accessible. I get that some people want exclusivity, but I don't. Not on a car I'm going to beat up on track.

Does 1LE stand for something?

The reason I bought the Shelby is for the engine. And it doesn't disappoint. All the other features of the car have just been bonuses.

I agree it's nice that GM builds large quantities of the performance versions of their cars. I just wish they would build something better for the performance versions of their cars. I think the engine in the SS and SS 1LE cars is fine. It's a good engine. But it's not a special engine. It's not even hot rodded in the least bit compared to the regular SS engine.

IMO the 1LE doesn't compare to the Shelby GT350 at all. It's just a handling package.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

Does 1LE stand for something?

The reason I bought the Shelby is for the engine. And it doesn't disappoint. All the other features of the car have just been bonuses.

I agree it's nice that GM builds large quantities of the performance versions of their cars. I just wish they would build something better for the performance versions of their cars. I think the engine in the SS and SS 1LE cars is fine. It's a good engine. But it's not a special engine. It's not even hot rodded in the least bit compared to the regular SS engine.

IMO the 1LE doesn't compare to the Shelby GT350 at all. It's just a handling package.

You're right. It essentially is a handling package... plus upgraded brakes, cooling, diff, seats, and some aesthetic bits. The fact is the car didn't need more power to be a better track car, it needed all the things the 1LE pacakge added. It's just as fast on a road course as the 350, which has more HP.

The Grand Sport Vette has the LT1 and is fast as hell. Not sure if you've driven a Z06 or not, but it is downright scary on a road course.

The 350 motor is def great. I love high reving motors. I used to have an E92 M3, which had a high reving V8. Loved that car. Then again, the amount of torque that comes out of the gate with the LT1 is fantastic. It's just different. I like them both.

I know what you're saying with the motor being special and all, but there is a huge premium to pay for just the motor. What a bummer that they stuck a shelby badge on a car with that motor, then skimped on things like coolers. At least they fixed that eventually. The PP2 is a joke and everyone knows it.

You can rip on the 1LE name all you want. It's an RPO code and doesnt stand for anything that I'm aware of. It does have history rooted in motorsports, and the fact is, it has it where it counts. Can't say that about a lot of the Ford packages.

It bums me out because I like Mustangs, but unless you spend 60K on a GT350, the car isnt ready for the track. And prior to them adding the TP by default on the 350, there were lots of owners who found out the hard way that their Shelby wasnt up for track duty. Yourself included. That is downright unacceptable. I would consider a 350 if Ford dealers didn't treat it like it's a Ferrari. Paying MSRP+ for any car is downright dumb. A 20k premium just for that motor I can't justify.

Sure, you could go buy a GT and strap on all sorts of aftermarket stuff to make it worthy, but it's going to cost you. If that's what you're into then that's great. There are lots of those out there.

My car isn't my identity, and I'm not a brand whore. It's funny how many people on this board are so tied to Ford that they can't see how much Ford is ass ramming them with the Mustang packaging. I'm not saying that's you, but there are sure a lot of dudes on here that would buy a Mustang no matter what it is.

 

[Hack]

The Grand Sport Vette has the LT1 and is fast as hell. Not sure if you've driven a Z06 or not, but it is downright scary on a road course.

So LT1 is both a name for a Corvette engine AND a name for a Camaro option package? Ughh! Sorry but that is just terrible.

I hope to own a GS someday. Having a dry sump engine is great for a road course car. But the GS is not fast because of a great engine. There are a lot of reasons - light weight, transaxle, low to the ground, but the engine is somewhat MEH in my opinion. It's good, but not amazing. Lots of cubic inches but not a lot of power.

I agree that the first year of the GT350 was messed up with the coolers missing. I do appreciate it that Ford went through the effort to offer retrofits to owners at a super low price. Ford really made up for a lot of it by doing that. My car has the factory Ford coolers on it now. Not aftermarket coolers. And you have a point about pricing, but there's a reason lots and lots of people paid every bit of MSRP + extra on GT350s. Even after years with no changes to the design some people are still paying ADM on GT350Rs.

So you can say the GT350 isn't good or it costs too much or whatever. But it's pretty evident that many of the people who are buying high performance vehicles are choosing the GT350 over the 1LE SS. If everyone agreed with you about the relative value of the GT350 vs. the SS 1LE, Ford wouldn't be able to sell GT350s. They'd all be sitting on dealer lots priced under MSRP. But it's the Camaros that are sitting on dealer lots priced under MSRP, not the GT350s.

The Camaro performs well, but that is only part of the picture. I think that's the biggest problem - other issues that are separate from the handling of the car.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

So LT1 is both a name for a Corvette engine AND a name for a Camaro option package? Ughh! Sorry but that is just terrible.

I hope to own a GS someday. Having a dry sump engine is great for a road course car. But the GS is not fast because of a great engine. There are a lot of reasons - light weight, transaxle, low to the ground, but the engine is somewhat MEH in my opinion. It's good, but not amazing. Lots of cubic inches but not a lot of power.

I agree that the first year of the GT350 was messed up with the coolers missing. I do appreciate it that Ford went through the effort to offer retrofits to owners at a super low price. Ford really made up for a lot of it by doing that. My car has the factory Ford coolers on it now. Not aftermarket coolers. And you have a point about pricing, but there's a reason lots and lots of people paid every bit of MSRP + extra on GT350s. Even after years with no changes to the design some people are still paying ADM on GT350Rs.

So you can say the GT350 isn't good or it costs too much or whatever. But it's pretty evident that many of the people who are buying high performance vehicles are choosing the GT350 over the 1LE SS. If everyone agreed with you about the relative value of the GT350 vs. the SS 1LE, Ford wouldn't be able to sell GT350s. They'd all be sitting on dealer lots priced under MSRP. But it's the Camaros that are sitting on dealer lots priced under MSRP, not the GT350s.

The Camaro performs well, but that is only part of the picture. I think that's the biggest problem - other issues that are separate from the handling of the car.

Yep. Agree with most of this. I was confused by the LT1 thing as well, but I do think it is a cool offering.

I never said the GT350 isnt good, but I do think it is overpriced, particularly because there aren't many discounts to be found. But much of that revolves around buyer demand. I suppose it will hold its value well for a while, but then you have people who baby it so much that it is pointless to even own. I got very tired of babying my M3 which is one reason I decided to go towards domestic for track duty. Less consumable expenses, less initial cost, etc.

The Camaro has plenty of things wrong with it. A couple of things I dont like are the the fact that the high wasteline makes it hard to put my arm on the window sill. I also am not crazy about the rear seat room or the center console space, compared to my M3, which easily fit 2 adults in the rear. Mustang isnt much better with that though. The visibilty is a total non issue for me, which seems to be what most people harp on.

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