OP
OP

jomo

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Thanks for sharing

So the company has essentially been able to map a EU car.

Would be interesting to hear if the can tune for E85
There are tuners, which adapt the tune to E85. But not legally released.
And to get E85 in Germany is rather difficult, only very(!) few stations still sell it.





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Mazman

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There are tuners, which adapt the tune to E85. But not legally released.
And to get E85 in Germany is rather difficult, only very(!) few stations still sell it.
I am being selfish and thinking of us here in Sweden, we have E85 all over.
So there are companies in Germany that can tune the 18+ for E85?
 

bnightstar

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I feel like you kind of got scammed on that it. Quite a few places have done intake manifold tests, and while in many of them the 2018+ is a bit better on average (by like 5hp) the GT350 manifold is better on the top end high RPM revving out to say 8,000, which is what you want then you're tuned and doing high speed runs.
https://motoiq.com/project-budget-4...ing-borla-s-type-cat-back-exhaust-and-tune/9/

Billy Johnson did a lot of Manifold tests both Stock GT, 2018+GT and GT350. He didn't find a measurable difference between 2018+GT and GT350 intake. And Ported 2018+GT flow better than a stock GT350 one.

He even went and put 2018+GT + K&N intake + Borla S+PBD tune and got same power and same RPM out of a Gen 1 Coyote as from a Gen 2 with Power Pack 3 (GT350 CAI, TB, Manifold+Ford Tune). With that in mind i think the only clear losers in the Manifold game are stock Gen1/2 IM's.
 

VictorH

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Congratulations Joerg that's really cool in such a regulated environment. I had a research project with the Fraunhofer Institute in Kaiserslautern some years ago and their head guy told me.

"In Germany, everything is forbidden, unless expressly permitted by law!"
 

Schwerin

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https://motoiq.com/project-budget-4...ing-borla-s-type-cat-back-exhaust-and-tune/9/

Billy Johnson did a lot of Manifold tests both Stock GT, 2018+GT and GT350. He didn't find a measurable difference between 2018+GT and GT350 intake. And Ported 2018+GT flow better than a stock GT350 one.

He even went and put 2018+GT + K&N intake + Borla S+PBD tune and got same power and same RPM out of a Gen 1 Coyote as from a Gen 2 with Power Pack 3 (GT350 CAI, TB, Manifold+Ford Tune). With that in mind i think the only clear losers in the Manifold game are stock Gen1/2 IM's.
I'm a bit surprised I never see anyone talk about ported GT350 intakes. I'd be interested in ported 18 vs ported 350 graphs.
 

bnightstar

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I'm a bit surprised I never see anyone talk about ported GT350 intakes. I'd be interested in ported 18 vs ported 350 graphs.
I think because they are actually bigger so no way to port them.
 

dx2

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I feel like you kind of got scammed on that it. Quite a few places have done intake manifold tests, and while in many of them the 2018+ is a bit better on average (by like 5hp) the GT350 manifold is better on the top end high RPM revving out to say 8,000, which is what you want then you're tuned and doing high speed runs. The GT350 does flow better than the 18+ GT. Now if you moved to a PORTED GT intake that may be worth your money, but just the intake swap alone is really just pointless.

A good tune BY IT SELF will put you over 500hp crank. You didn't need a manifold or intake tube. In fact a should tune should have you more like 530-550 Crank on premium fuel. You're definitely not going to get 500 wheel unless you also have headers or e85.
E85 / Bioethanol is not an option here, it was deliberately made uneconomic end of 2015, before that you did not pay any taxes. Now it costs a lot more than usual premium fuel.
Mods like long tubes might be possible though, havent checked.

To me what matters is the individual comparison of the power difference before / after a tune or mod has been applied.

He got a cheap package that works quite well on stock mustangs without much mods required. This is what Jörg got.

But Mr. Hentschel is also selling a Supercharger Kit which will cost a bit more ($20k+) because emission approval costs he has to pay which go into 6 figures and the low volume of customers ordering something. That way you do not need to pay that youself and you do not run into problems with the authorities.
 

raptor17GT

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op has nice options on his car and it certainly pulls way further than my stock UK model so thanks for posting videos and the links too :like:
 

vanquishvzla

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To me, it certainly didn't "looK" that fast, as far as passing vehicles, the white dotted lines, etc. That being said, I have never personally driven over 145 (car or bike), and I've only seen about 120 in my GT for a short period of time. I'm not calling bullshit, just giving my opinion. I wish I could do that around here!
Multiple times i found myself driving around 110 mph (top speed of our ranault van) while people were passing me like i was doing 60 mph... from sport cars to old mercedes sedans driven by a really really really old looking couple lol... Germany have minimum speed signs, not max... i loved that shit... people here drive slow AF, me included with the amount of police now around the city
 
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v8hgt

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If you look at the rpm he is pulling 6400 rpm at 290km/h at those revs the ported 2018 manifold gives you more power than the gt350 manifold. If he had a different diff ratio in there and was pulling 7500rpm at max speed the gt350 mani would give him more power. For a road car the stock 2018 mani is the better choice most of the time. Still that’s impressive going. Maybe fitting a stock 2018 closed air box would yield more gains at high speed. Makes you wonder if there is any point gettting a Mach 1 or bullitt over a stock GT as the gt350 induction hardware is useless on the road.
 

308 Cal. Bullitt

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I believe James, who did the Steeda Bullitt Tune, had conveyed to us that a Bullitt w/a stk GT350 INTAKE, on E85 - W/his tune, & the Cotton type filter.
(& possibly headers added too .. if my memory serves me, & removal of rev limiter w/tune.)

All of these item's.. combined.. on a Bullitt w/stk GT350 Manifold.. Is still a better setup overall, than ALL the aforementioned items, minus the GT350 intake manifold, & adfing a gt '18 intake via swap.
(So doing the Stk GT intake swap on a Bullitt isnt as great as everyone thinks w/the combination of components & a few more revs to boot....
Even thou his Tune is big improvement on midrange torque, & not peak HP as might be expected).

He is the authority. Just attempting to recall a conversation from ladt August regarding his technology at that time for a Bullitt.

So U are likely right, if I correctly understood James's. To a large extent.

In that he said the GT350 intake, stk, is only infact the best performance manifold for the Bullitt, when used in conjunction w/ all the other additional updates mentioned above. ( & his E85 tune..)

(These are all the "typical" updates anyhow -cost & time wise for most enthusiasts who go beyond stock anyhow).

So all the upgrades being installed, on Bullitt, & E85 tune by James's, outperformed the same setup,
but w/an '18 GT manifold,
instead of the Stk GT350 Intake.

He can speak to this much better that I can. I perhaps things hav chg'd since last August?

Im certainly not beyond possibly mis- quoting him on tjis topic.

What was clear at the end of our conversation was as I recall.

LEAVE THE GT350 INTAKE on the Bullitt, along w/his using his E-tune & the easiest bolt on parts.
For the best overall torque setup.
Yes-torque. Torque & GT350 intake in same sentence & outcome.

Not necessarily the best for tje highest HP output. Using his Tune in conjunction w/the rest. As we all learned bk in the 80s that Torque accelerates a vehicle, not HP.

Anyone w/big hp likely has the tranny & rear gear ratios to convert that hp to Torque at the wheels and doesnt always know it.
Example; an NHRA Prostock car. All hp at flywheel.
Then All torque multiplication, from the clutch to 5spd- to the ring gear ratio.

What I do know regarding these 'Litts is,
we need a wiring harness for a Tremec swap thats warrantyfriendly..

Possibly from a Mock 1 ??.
To put a Tremechear box in our 'Litts, & get rid of the
"Gestapo engineered grist mill w/the Communist flare & assembly care ".
Aka: MT82-D4 - needs gone.

Hence the class action lawsuit against FoMoCo for the trash dump of an 8620 metallic heap of lard, encased in a zinc like, die casting of a case.

All combined to give the user a shifting experience-- the likes of Muncie M-22-9310 nickel geared, crashbox- w/o the essential installation of using sliders or sycros.
:sarcasm:
If im wrong then James can correct me.
 

Schwerin

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I believe James, who did the Steeda Bullitt Tune, had conveyed to us that a Bullitt w/a stk GT350 INTAKE, on E85 - W/his tune, & the Cotton type filter.
(& possibly headers added too .. if my memory serves me, & removal of rev limiter w/tune.)

All of these item's.. combined.. on a Bullitt w/stk GT350 Manifold.. Is still a better setup overall, than ALL the aforementioned items, minus the GT350 intake manifold, & adfing a gt '18 intake via swap.
(So doing the Stk GT intake swap on a Bullitt isnt as great as everyone thinks w/the combination of components & a few more revs to boot....
Even thou his Tune is big improvement on midrange torque, & not peak HP as might be expected).


{cutting lengh to save scrolling}
This is James FaceBook quote about a e85 ONLY tune for a stock Bullitt:
So, if we use the STD correction numbers, you will see that we started at 432 and ended up at 490 for a gain of 58HP! Keep in mind that this car was as stock as they come!!! Not bad for a tune and a little E85, right? Peak to peak torque came up from 385 to 423 for a gain of 38. Keep in mind too, this is peak numbers. If you look at the cursor at 2400 RPM, that is where the REAL gains are. Torque jumped from 270 to 359… yes, that is a gain of 89ftlb!!! …yeah. I will just leave it at that. Have a good day!
1618445993802.png



He also tuned a Bullitt with just exhaust and Headers that made 500WHP on 93 octane.
1ST 500whp Naturally Aspirated 2019 Bullitt??? - YouTube

This is why I feel that unless it's a PORTED intake the OP was ripped off. There was ZERO reason to swap it other than the tuner wanting to get money out of him.
 
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Medsport

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I'm assuming the 500hp and 440tq from the original post is at the crank and not at the wheels, correct?
 

v8hgt

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I'm assuming the 500hp and 440tq from the original post is at the crank and not at the wheels, correct?
Correct in EU we measure at the crank, which means tuner cars are put on a (often inaccurate) dyno to measure at the wheels, then minus a percentage of approx 15% (but this may vary to make the numbers look better) to account for drive train losses. The resulting figure is then usually rounded up to something a bit more impressive and presented as fact.
 

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