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Strokerswild

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Anytime I see a car online with an ADM listed, I won't even bother to contact them at all. Free market or no, they've already decided to be pricks up front so they don't need my business.
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ScottyRyan2018

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Bla bla bla. I love it how some people bitch and moan. Itā€˜s supply and demand. No different than what has been happening in the housing market the past two years. Low inventory + high demand = high home prices /bidding wars. Dealers will get what the public is willing to pay in times such as this. They too still have bills to pay.

One more thing. Every one of us has a used car thatā€™s likely worth more today than it was 18 months ago. Yet not one of us is going to say, ā€œWell this supply and demand is bullshit! Iā€™m not going to get what someone will pay. Iā€™m going to sell for wha it was worth 18 months ago.ā€œ.
 
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Evolvd

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Bla bla bla. I love it how some people bitch and moan. Itā€˜s supply and demand. No different than what has been happening in the housing market the past two years. Low inventory + high demand = high home prices /bidding wars. Dealers will get what the public is willing to pay in times such as this. They too still have bills to pay.

One more thing. Every one of us has a used car thatā€™s likely worth more today than it was 18 months ago. Yet not one of us is going to say, ā€œWell this supply and demand is bullshit! Iā€™m not going to get what someone will pay. Iā€™m going to sell for wha it was worth 18 months ago.ā€œ.
Except that dealers have been doing ADM long before the pandemic or shortages when our trade-ins werenā€™t worth as much.
 

The Demon

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Except that dealers have been doing ADM long before the pandemic or shortages when our trade-ins werenā€™t worth as much.
Exactly. A guy I know went all the way to Illinois from California to buy his GT500 because he could get it for $5000 ADM compared to what he could do in California. This was way before the pandemic.
 

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ScottyRyan2018

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Except that dealers have been doing ADM long before the pandemic or shortages when our trade-ins werenā€™t worth as much.
So what? Itā€™s the same thing just for a different underlying reason. We can argue all day about why, but the fact is there is a really big supply problem causing a shortage of vehicles. Yet, the demand is still there.

Does anyone really think Ford or any other manufacturer WANTS to idle a factory? No. They would rather be pumping out vehicles to the consumer 24/7/365 instead of idling factories every now and then trying to make up costs by price increases in those vehicles they happen to make. And remember, the manufacturer has nothing to do with setting that ADM. Thatā€™s the dealership.

Back in 2007 when the GT500 re-emerged dealerships around here were at $20K above MSRP. Why? High demand, low supplyā€¦ and people paid it.

I doubt anyone here can come up with very many ( if any) examples of a low demand / high supply vehicle that has/had an ADM on it.

Itā€™s just basic supply and demand economics.
 

ScottyRyan2018

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Exactly. A guy I know went all the way to Illinois from California to buy his GT500 because he could get it for $5000 ADM compared to what he could do in California. This was way before the pandemic.
And why was there any ADM in the first place? Because itā€™s a low supply / high demand vehicle then just as it is today. Just because he found one that had a lesser ADM doesnā€™t change that fact ( and ADMs are set by the dealer not the manufacturer so you will often see different amounts across the nation based on local factors).

As I said above, the reason WHY isnā€™t really relevant today or at any other previous time. Dealers put ADMs on vehicles that are in low supply and high demand, not high supply and low demand.

Want to see the ADM go away? Lessen the demand or increase the supply. Neither of those two things are happening anytime soon.
 

Evolvd

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I doubt anyone here can come up with very many ( if any) examples of a low demand / high supply vehicle that has/had an ADM on it.

Itā€™s just basic supply and demand economics.
Oh, Iā€™m your Huckleberry. My local Toyota dealership has had an ADM on every vehicle on their lot for the last 6 years Iā€™ve lived here. Even the base model Corolla had a $2K markup. I know this because my last daily car was a 2020 Avalon TRD and before that was a 2014 Corolla. This is not a low volume dealer either.
Youā€™re right, we can argue ADM all day and there will always be two sides to the argument, greed and capitalism. I just have you an example of the former. And you supported it by stating ā€œdealers put an ADM and people paid itā€. Thatā€™s another way of saying ā€œlegal extortionā€. Have a product that only you can sell, limited by how many you can receive, and artificially raise the price knowing that people have no other choice but to pay-to-play.
In my book thatā€™s not ā€œbasic economicsā€, that is greed.
 

ScottyRyan2018

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Oh, Iā€™m your Huckleberry. My local Toyota dealership has had an ADM on every vehicle on their lot for the last 6 years Iā€™ve lived here. Even the base model Corolla had a $2K markup. I know this because my last daily car was a 2020 Avalon TRD and before that was a 2014 Corolla. This is not a low volume dealer either.
Youā€™re right, we can argue ADM all day and there will always be two sides to the argument, greed and capitalism. I just have you an example of the former. And you supported it by stating ā€œdealers put an ADM and people paid itā€. Thatā€™s another way of saying ā€œlegal extortionā€. Have a product that only you can sell, limited by how many you can receive, and artificially raise the price knowing that people have no other choice but to pay-to-play.
In my book thatā€™s not ā€œbasic economicsā€, that is greed.
By your statement I would assume they are the only Toyota dealer in the area?

If so then they are playing off supply and demand (on a local level) because the SUPPLY of Toyotas in your area is low based on the DEMAND for them and people are unwilling to travel to another dealer xxx of miles away to not pay that ADM ( itā€™s not just a global or national issue, it can be regional all the way down to local or less).

If there is another dealer in the area that isnā€™t charging the ADM and people are still going to the dealership and shelling out extra $$$ā€¦.well that doesnā€™t sound too smart now does it?

On the flip side, if there are other Toyota dealers in the area and they are all working in collusion by adding an ADM on all of their vehicles then that is greedy bullshit and they also have another serious issue going on.

There are all sorts of examples happening that are not ADMs but are effects of the supply and demand issue today as well as many years past and Iā€™ll use examples from my area.

Iā€™m going to just use the Mustang GT as an example but this applied to many Ford models. Supply use to be high on a Mustang GTs. You would see an MSRP of letā€™s say $40,000 with DEALER discounts and FACTORY rebates of $4K to $6K depending on time of year.

Now every Mustang on the lot is going for full MSRP or very close to it and some specialty ones have an ADM. Fucking greedy bastards for trying to make a buck and stay in business when they canā€™t get a product and there is demand for it.

Another simple example of the market in play. Why is it Ford was just recently offering a $1,000 factory rebate on ordered Mustangs/Mustang GTs but not on GT500s, Mach 1s, Mach-E etc?

Why is it that a certain dealer is offering 4% off invoice on Mustangs but only 2% off Mach 1s and full MSRP on GT500s ( this is just ordered vehicle prices not dealer stock where the dealer has all sorts of extras costs to floor a vehicle)? And I am NOT disrespecting this dealer. His pricing is damn admirable especially in this market.

I would be willing to bet the above two examples have something to do with supply and demand and asking for more $$ for one vehicle over another isnā€™t always just about greed, itā€™s business.
 
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Hack

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Seeing a Mustang GT doesn't make your day? I saw an EcoBoost Stang, thought it had the HP option and was like "whoa!". Every mustang makes my day. I see and an s550 mustang and I'm think, "Cool. They get it." But that pretty much goes for every Stang from a 1986 "Rust"ang, to a 1999 "Disgust"ang to a Cobra. They're just fun, easy, relatable, non pretentious cars.
I like seeing any sporty car, Miata, Mustang, Camaro, Challenger. There just aren't enough around here. 99% of people either buy small SUVs or they buy big pickups.

This has been discussed already a few pages back.
Ford and GM cannot do much about what the dealerships charge for their cars.
Ford and GM can do their best to make enough cars to satisfy demand. Increasing supply would remove all ADMs in short order. I believe Chevy has typically tried to do that, but Ford deliberately limits the production of certain cars, which makes it more difficult if you want to own one. With the pandemic and certain chips that are difficult to make and test such as automotive radar, things have changed. However, Ford always did this thing where they didn't make many of the halo cars. I blame Ford more than the dealers.
 

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ScottyRyan2018

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Nope, thereā€™s two within 30 min drive and half a dozen within 2 hours.
And if those other dealerships are not charging the ADM and people are still paying it they are just plain stupid. You are correct, in that case itā€™s just plain greed.
 

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Back in 2007 when the GT500 re-emerged dealerships around here were at $20K above MSRP. Why? High demand, low supplyā€¦ and people paid it.
The current 2007 used prices don't really reflect that $20k ADM. I guess it's safe to say those original owners never saw any of that money when they sold them.
 

ScottyRyan2018

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The current 2007 used prices don't really reflect that $20k ADM. I guess it's safe to say those original owners never saw any of that money when they sold them.
Overall Iā€™d say you are correct (Iā€™m sure there is a case here or there where someone did if they never drove it, sold it soon after, etc). I think part of it was it was a piece of history people wanted right then and they thought they would end up being a bit more exclusive than they turned out to be. Also, those high ADMs in my area were gone by MY 2009 and you were seeing them go at MSRP or maybe a $5K ADM depending on time of year. That really pissed off those who paid that high ADM.

Youā€™ll see the same thing with some of todayā€™s ADMs on vehicles that are in low supply because of supply chain issues and not just because of very limited production runs. Once things get back to ā€normalā€ and there are not production issues youā€™ll see used car prices drop and dealers start to price vehicles a bit more reasonable.

History doesnā€™t repeat, but it sure as hell rhymes
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