New 2020 GT350 HEP engine failure

[K4fxd]

I'm glad you are an engineer and do not listen to your superiors.

He is told to design a part, the part needs to last, let's say 6000 hours and it needs to be built at say $45 dollars unit cost. Once the finished product hits the 6000 hour mark in testing they stop testing.

It doesn't matter to the manufacturer if it lasts another 6000 hours or if it lasts 1 more hour.

It has nothing to do with the quality of the engineer designing the part.

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[cdh027]

Not sure if this has been asked, but are all these engine failures showing up in model year 2020 or are the 2019's having just as many failures?

 

[460Fred]

Not sure if this has been asked, but are all these engine failures showing up in model year 2020 or are the 2019's having just as many failures?

I own a ‘19 and its perfect. What that tells me is all ‘19’s are perfect....jus sayin’. ;-)

 

[Hack]

My question is to all those suggesting to try to buy the original block back. The one item I disagree with is that whether you have the original block or not the value of the vehicle is what's in it. When selling it having the original block will help but the resale value will still be less due to numbers not matching in the vehicle.

I agree.

When I looked at a GT350R locally to me with the engine replaced, my concern wasn't really about numbers matching. It was more about how well the work was done and how the car was treated during the time frame when the previous owner was trying to get a buy back from Ford (owner hated the car and just wanted to dump it).

If I were looking at a car for sale that had an engine replaced and then the new engine had thousands of miles on it over several years with the original owner, that would tell me that the owner still loved the car (and probably treated it well) after the engine was replaced and that everything was done well with the replacement. I would still try to get it for less than a car with no engine replacement.

The only situation I can think of where I would consider paying equal or more for a car with an engine replacement would be a higher miles car where the replacement engine has only a few thousand miles on it.

I'm sure some people are thinking collectible, etc. but GT350s are going to just be used cars for the next 10+ years. Some time 20-50 years from now they definitely will be collectible, though. They are awesome cars. The numbers matching stuff will matter at that point, maybe.

I'm glad you are an engineer and do not listen to your superiors.

He is told to design a part, the part needs to last, let's say 6000 hours and it needs to be built at say $45 dollars unit cost. Once the finished product hits the 6000 hour mark in testing they stop testing.

It doesn't matter to the manufacturer if it lasts another 6000 hours or if it lasts 1 more hour.

It has nothing to do with the quality of the engineer designing the part.

Agreed. The engineer's job is to do what the company asked for as quickly and cost effectively as possible. If the engineer makes a $3 part into a $3.50 part overdesigning it, they are wasting the company's money and making the end product more expensive (the company either has lower profits or higher product prices). If the engineer runs life tests longer than the spec they are wasting the company's money and time. All those costs on individual parts add up.

 

[shogun32]

All those costs on individual parts add up.

Indeed. But I wonder if some of the "fails right after warranty expires" is due to not testing for aging effects. 6000 hrs of continuous duty != 3hrs duty + 5hr idle done 2000 times over the course of 5 years and variable temps. I'm thinking of things like plastic composites and such on BMW that fail and are crazy expensive to replace.

 

[Hack]

Indeed. But I wonder if some of the "fails right after warranty expires" is due to not testing for aging effects. 6000 hrs of continuous duty != 3hrs duty + 5hr idle done 2000 times over the course of 5 years and variable temps. I'm thinking of things like plastic composites and such on BMW that fail and are crazy expensive to replace.

I think "fails right after warranty expires" is an urban myth. Of course it can happen, but the time when a part fails has a lot of variation. So generally the part will be designed to last significantly beyond the warranty period. Factor of safety is very commonly used to avoid failure during warranty coverage. It costs the manufacturer a lot to replace a part under warranty whether it happens at the beginning or end of the warranty period.

I think you are right about life testing - I agree that the accelerated aging tests at BMW were probably inadequate in some way. It's also possible the plastic material had more variation from lot to lot than was accounted for. Or some "minor" change in part geometry between testing and product release caused the issue. There are many possible explanations. Rushing the development process can have a big impact on quality.

 

[stanglife]

Indeed. But I wonder if some of the "fails right after warranty expires" is due to not testing for aging effects. 6000 hrs of continuous duty != 3hrs duty + 5hr idle done 2000 times over the course of 5 years and variable temps. I'm thinking of things like plastic composites and such on BMW that fail and are crazy expensive to replace.

Now we're making up potential future failures based on excellent understanding of engineering practices? Give me a break.

 

[onebad58]

why cant ford stamp the vin on the new block. and are people letting the oil get to temp before getting on it

 

[JR369]

why cant ford stamp the vin on the new block. and are people letting the oil get to temp before getting on it

Why should Ford replace an original block with non-original block stamped with the VIN so that the owner can call it original 20 years down the line? A lot of people blew their motors in the 60 muscle cars and guess what? They were replaced with "service" blocks or engines. But the ones who were smart enough to not try to hit 7k rpm on their big block motors were fine and those cars are indeed numbers matching cars today.

 

[Spacebird]

I’ve read most of this thread, but frankly had to skim a bit to not get sucked into the “debate.”

Question: has anyone been able to correlate VIN or engine number with the 2020 failures?

I’m thinking about replacing my 2016 R with a 2020 R... or a 911.

 

[stanglife]

I’ve read most of this thread, but frankly had to skim a bit to not get sucked into the “debate.”

Question: has anyone been able to correlate VIN or engine number with the 2020 failures?

I’m thinking about replacing my 2016 R with a 2020 R... or a 911.

Hey man, been a while. Been asking these questions - but some people want to say what they think they "know" and if logic or facts don't apply, they just keep on preaching ;)

From what I can tell, all of them are early builds with the most recent being June - but the owner will not do anything to help confirm that one.

- Few pics of followers spit out, secondary timing chains broken and broken valves. SInce everyone else is guessing - my money is on OPG, sticking valves, seized cam and to a lesser degree, the valve itself.
- Worth noting is while Ford made some tweaks along the way, we've never known the root cause of failures from previous years so it could be related...or not.

My 20R just hit 1k, built in September. I'm not worried.

 

[Spacebird]

Hey man, been a while. Been asking these questions - but some people want to say what they think they "know" and if logic or facts don't apply, they just keep on preaching ;)

Facts? On the internet!?

With some cooperation between members and some Googlesleuthing we could at least see if there’s some correlation clumping of failures and estimated build dates. Seems like our heads are in the same place.

My 20R just hit 1k, built in September. I'm not worried.

Cool. FWIW, the non-HEP R I have my eye on has an October 2020 build date. The situation with my 2016 is ongoing: 100+ days at the dealer, now at a new one. They’re working to get another Ford Service Engineering visit. But that’s a story for another thread

 

[mroad]

With some cooperation between members and some Googlesleuthing we could at least see if there’s some correlation clumping of failures and estimated build dates. Seems like our heads are in the same place.

My build date is 7/14/2020. I doubt it's only this batch as I read about 2020 failures similar to mine prior to this build date.

 

[Spacebird]

My build date is 7/14/2020. I doubt it's only this batch as I read about 2020 failures similar to mine prior to this build date.

Helpful—thanks!

 

[Allan]

These cars are such a huge pile of shit. My motor failed today too.


oh wait! I forgot I was supposed to have the key fob in my pocket, push the clutch pedal down and hit the little start button. Oh and pull the little winter blanket off of it. Damn, where did I leave my whiskey bottle?

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