Need help with understanding my current rear wheel setup from 19X9.5 ET35 & going to 19X10.5 ET22...

kai20035

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Just bought my ESR CS15 wheels and went with a squared setup with 19X9.5 ET35 with 285/35/19 Indy 500 tires.

Note: To clear the calipers on the 16 GT Base model I had to use a 1/4 wheel spacer which luckily it also makes my wheels sit perfectly flush from front to rear!

Now, I want to change my rear wheel setup from 19X9.5 ET35 to 19X10.5 ET22 so my question is:

1) Will the 19X10.5's ET22 sit 13mm more inwards towards the back but since it's a 10.5 wheel how much will be poking out, 1/2 an inch poke with it being an +22 offset?

Please keep in mind that the 19X9.5's ET35 sit 1/4 or (6mm) tucked and had to use 1/4 wheel spacers to make it sit flush! I spoke to 2 different guys from ESR and they both gave me 2 different answers! Now I need S550 support to understand this 100% because it's very hard to return wheels back to the US considering I'll be having shipped to Ontario, Canada.

My theory was, since my 19X9.5's are +35 offset and I'm using a 1/4 inch spacer (6mm) if you combine these numbers we got +41 Offset right at a flush fitment correct? So if I got 19X10.5 ET22 do I not subtract 41-28 and that's my poke, 13mm? Or am I just way off???

First pic are the 19X10.5's ET22 I want to get and second pic is the current setup!



s-l1600 (10).jpg


Driver.jpg

 
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wireeater

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You have it reversed. A spacer will lower your offset, thus pushing your wheel out further. The more positive your offset is, the further your wheel sits inwards towards your suspension. The lower amount/negative offset will move the wheel outwards. So if you have a offset 35 and run a 6mm spacer, your offset is now 29.

Further the wheel goes out = negative offset.

Further the wheel goes in = positive offset


This is comparing old wheel to new wheel with no spacers.

Compared to your existing wheel, this new wheel will have an inner rim which is 0.3mm further away from the suspension strut. The outer rim will poke out 25.7mm more than before.

https://www.willtheyfit.com/index.p...=35&wheel_size=19&wheel_width=10-5&offset2=22


wheelimage.gif


This is comparing the old wheel with the current 6mm spacer to the new wheel without using a spacer.

https://www.willtheyfit.com/index.p...=35&wheel_size=19&wheel_width=10-5&offset2=22

Compared to your existing wheel, this new wheel will have an inner rim which is 5.7mm closer to the suspension strut. The outer rim will poke out 19.7mm more than before.

wheelimage (1).gif


The wider your rim gets the more positive offset you want to put your rim inwards or it would just continue to stick further and further out from the fender. With the 10.5 width, if you wanted it to sit pretty much exactly where it sits now with your 35offset + spacer (29 offset) you would want 40mm offset but for some reason I feel like you should be looking for 45mm for a 10.5. From the picture it looks like the rears are already poking out but maybe it's the angle. Usually 35mm is what you want for a 9.5 width for our cars.
 
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kai20035

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You have it reversed. A spacer will lower your offset, thus pushing your wheel out further. The more positive your offset is, the further your wheel sits inwards towards your suspension. The lower amount/negative offset will move the wheel outwards. So if you have a offset 35 and run a 6mm spacer, your offset is now 29 offset.

Further the wheel goes out = negative offset.

Further the wheel goes in = positive offset


This is comparing old wheel to new wheel with no spacers.

Compared to your existing wheel, this new wheel will have an inner rim which is 0.3mm further away from the suspension strut. The outer rim will poke out 25.7mm more than before.

https://www.willtheyfit.com/index.p...=35&wheel_size=19&wheel_width=10-5&offset2=22


wheelimage.gif


This is comparing the old wheel with the current 6mm spacer to the new wheel without using a spacer.

https://www.willtheyfit.com/index.p...=35&wheel_size=19&wheel_width=10-5&offset2=22

Compared to your existing wheel, this new wheel will have an inner rim which is 5.7mm closer to the suspension strut. The outer rim will poke out 19.7mm more than before.

wheelimage (1).gif


The wider your rim gets the more positive offset you want to put your rim inwards or it would just continue to stick further and further out from the fender. With the 10.5 width, if you wanted it to sit pretty much exactly where it sits now with your 35offset + spacer (29 offset) you would want 40mm offset but for some reason I feel like you should be looking for 45mm for a 10.5. From the picture it looks like the rears are already poking out but maybe it's the angle. Usually 35mm is what you want for a 9.5 width for our cars.
Thanks for the highly detailed info Mr. Offset! :-) That wasn't probably the best picture to display but I can assure it's flush and not poking out. Even with my SVE R350 19X10's ET35 squared setup with the same size tires I had to use 1/4 inch wheel spacers to make it sit flush so the magic number for the S550's flush fitment is +29 but that's a number you won't find in a wheel option! Sorry one more question...

The 19X10.5 wheels have a 3.65 inch lip and my current setup has only 2 inches so would this affect your offset calculations in any way? Pics below is a S550 with those 19X10.5 ET22 so if you're lowered I'm assuming you can play with some camber adjustments to make it sit flush like his? The 3rd pic is another 19X10.5 ET22 and that's a HUGE poke!


Image 12.jpg
1354797-2-2016-mustang-ford-ecoboost-air-lift-performance-air-suspension-esr-cs15-black (2).jpg
1152888-4-2017-mustang-ford-gt-stock-air-suspension-esr-sr07-black (1).jpg
 
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Thanks for the highly detailed info Mr. Offset! :-) That wasn't probably the best picture to display but I can assure it's flush and not poking out. Even with my SVE R350 19X10's ET35 squared setup with the same size tires I had to use 1/4 inch wheel spacers to make it sit flush so the magic number for the S550's flush fitment is +29 but that's a number you won't find in a wheel option! Sorry one more question...

The 19X10.5 wheels have a 3.65 inch lip and my current setup has only 2 inches so would this affect your offset calculations in any way? Pics below is a S550 with those 19X10.5 ET22 so if you're lowered I'm assuming you can play with some camber adjustments to make it sit flush like his? The 3rd pic is another 19X10.5 ET22 and that's a HUGE poke!
heh, there was a lot of "offset" huh. I was sleepless last night and typed that on the phone so there was multiple edits coming back with images, etc. I was just hoping to explain it without making it confusing, because it can become that. I actually just did my research this week to learn all this shit out because I am also running an "aggressive" fitment wheel that really isn't made specifically for our car too (I am doing a 19x9.5 +30mm square with 275/40s). I just got excited I already had an opportunity to share some of the new found wisdom. Though I'm still figuring some of it out.

For the ESR, I was looking at them myself during my wheel selection. I think these wheels are considered to be more of a import/drift style wheel so the offsets, bores, backspacing are different than what our Mustangs wheels typically sit. That's also why I like these style of wheels because you are less likely to see them on another Mustang because it takes a little magic and configuration to get them to sit properly. From what I've seen almost all of these wheels have more aggressive offsets when they get wider (why people run flares for aggressive setups). I am wheel overloaded from all the looking and research over the past few weeks but for these types of wheels they will only be in a 15mm, 22mm, 30mm, and 35mm offset, depending on the width.

Being you can only get the 10.5 in a +22, I think you are better off sticking with the 9.5 wheel because you will have less poke. It would sit 19mm further out than where it is right now. That is right around 3/4 of an inch, or 19mm. If it's already sitting flush in the rear, you are good. If I'm getting where you are at, you wanted to run a setup that didn't require running spacers? I had the same idea but learned it just wasn't going to work that way. Being that these wheels are not designed for our cars specifically that's why they also have issues clearing the brakes. I have brembos so bigger worry for me. I have 5mm and 10mm spacers I am going to test and pray that 5mm will clear. I think even with the 22, it still doesn't change the backspacing, etc so the calipers will still sit in the same spot so you might have to run a spacer regardless. That's were my knowledge to this goes back to learning. So maybe someone else can come in here and add or correct me.

My plan was, if all of my information was wrong and someone called me out on it I was going to say it was all an April fools joke and it was intentional. Still going that route.
 

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Also I wanted to check because I ran into this issue as well. With wheels like these, they are more of a universal wheel so they do not have the same hub diameter. Most wheels are hub centric so in order to have them align properly, the hub and the wheel hub bore need to have the same diameter to allow the wheel to line up when tightening the lugs in order to take the stress off the wheel. These wheels tend to run a larger hub bore that way multiple types of cars can use them, and then you use a hub centric ring that is basically a conversion to make it fit. 70.5mm is what our wheel hubs run. These wheels have a hub bore of 72.56 which means there would be a diameter difference of +2mm between the hub and the wheels hub bore, so the wheel would wiggle, which causes vibrations when driving.

What "should" happen is usually the vendor who sells the wheel or the manufacture will include hub centric rings with the shipment that match your vehicle. I did not get any with mine, so I ordered some this morning. If you need hub rings for your current 19x9.5 setup you would need a OD=72.56mm to ID=7.05mm. The ring basically will taper from size to make a snug connection between the wheel and hub. You can also get spacers with the inner and outer diameters so you don't have to run the rings.

If you went to the 10.5 width your wheel hub bore would change to a 73.1, which is actually what mine run, and what I ordered this morning. If you want I can give you the link to them IF you didn't get the rings with the wheels. Or I could be a complete ass, and you already know all of this. I just didn't want you to run into issues down the road.

when i refer to "hub" or "wheel hub" this is what I am talking about:
Wheel-Hub-With-Callouts-1607519599285.jpg


When I refer to "wheel hub bore" this is what I am talking about:
center-bore.jpg


When i refer to hub centric rings, this is what I am referring to, though these can be plastic, metals:
s-l1600.jpg
 
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kai20035

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Also I wanted to check because I ran into this issue as well. With wheels like these, they are more of a universal wheel so they do not have the same hub diameter. Most wheels are hub centric so in order to have them align properly, the hub and the wheel hub bore need to have the same diameter to allow the wheel to line up when tightening the lugs in order to take the stress off the wheel. These wheels tend to run a larger hub bore that way multiple types of cars can use them, and then you use a hub centric ring that is basically a conversion to make it fit. 70.5mm is what our wheel hubs run. These wheels have a hub bore of 72.56 which means there would be a diameter difference of +2mm between the hub and the wheels hub bore, so the wheel would wiggle, which causes vibrations when driving.

What "should" happen is usually the vendor who sells the wheel or the manufacture will include hub centric rings with the shipment that match your vehicle. I did not get any with mine, so I ordered some this morning. If you need hub rings for your current 19x9.5 setup you would need a OD=72.56mm to ID=7.05mm. The ring basically will taper from size to make a snug connection between the wheel and hub. You can also get spacers with the inner and outer diameters so you don't have to run the rings.

If you went to the large width your wheel hub bore would change to a 73.1, which is actually what mine run, and what I ordered. If you want I can give you the link to them IF you didn't get the rings with the wheels. Or I could be a complete ass, and you already know all of this. I just didn't want you to run into issues down the road.
Thanks for the tip and yes I did get my hub rings with mine. Sometimes when you're buying from an online store it won't add that kit for you automatically at checkout and you have to do it yourself!
 

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spigot rings for centring the wheel on the hub. Either hard plastic or metal, used a lot in the Jap car scene

edit: kai has it in hand :like:
 

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Thanks for the tip and yes I did get my hub rings with mine. Sometimes when you're buying from an online store it won't add that kit for you automatically at checkout and you have to do it yourself!

Awesome. Yeah. I didn't even have that option and didn't realize at the time anyways. just out of curiosity, who did you order from?
 
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kai20035

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heh, there was a lot of "offset" huh. I was sleepless last night and typed that on the phone so there was multiple edits coming back with images, etc. I was just hoping to explain it without making it confusing, because it can become that. I actually just did my research this week to learn all this shit out because I am also running an "aggressive" fitment wheel that really isn't made specifically for our car too (I am doing a 19x9.5 +30mm square with 275/40s). I just got excited I already had an opportunity to share some of the new found wisdom. Though I'm still figuring some of it out.

For the ESR, I was looking at them myself during my wheel selection. I think these wheels are considered to be more of a import/drift style wheel so the offsets, bores, backspacing are different than what our Mustangs wheels typically sit. That's also why I like these style of wheels because you are less likely to see them on another Mustang because it takes a little magic and configuration to get them to sit properly. From what I've seen almost all of these wheels have more aggressive offsets when they get wider (why people run flares for aggressive setups). I am wheel overloaded from all the looking and research over the past few weeks but for these types of wheels they will only be in a 15mm, 22mm, 30mm, and 35mm offset, depending on the width.

Being you can only get the 10.5 in a +22, I think you are better off sticking with the 9.5 wheel because you will have less poke. It would sit 19mm further out than where it is right now. That is right around 3/4 of an inch, or 19mm. If it's already sitting flush in the rear, you are good. If I'm getting where you are at, you wanted to run a setup that didn't require running spacers? I had the same idea but learned it just wasn't going to work that way. Being that these wheels are not designed for our cars specifically that's why they also have issues clearing the brakes. I have brembos so bigger worry for me. I have 5mm and 10mm spacers I am going to test and pray that 5mm will clear. I think even with the 22, it still doesn't change the backspacing, etc so the calipers will still sit in the same spot so you might have to run a spacer regardless. That's were my knowledge to this goes back to learning. So maybe someone else can come in here and add or correct me.

My plan was, if all of my information was wrong and someone called me out on it I was going to say it was all an April fools joke and it was intentional. Still going that route.
LMFAO!! Hey, I'm so glad we have a good S550 community because I've spent weeks looking into this, chatting with these guys that have this setup and they all keep saying it's a small poke if you're not lowered but after seeing a that Oxford white GT I had shown you that's some serious poke I cannot deal with, I don't like poke...........maybe 1/8 -1/4 inch because I want these wheels so badly! :-0 God you took me back to "Offset & Wheel Management" school and my mind is still boggled! Brother, you can't be doing this to someone during COVID giving me all of this info as a crash course to the world of offsets!

Sorry as for the caliper I didn't mean to confuse you as I have a 2016 GT (Non PP) with the 4 pistons calipers and had to use them to clear the front calipers because those wheels did scrape the calipers in the front so after using them it gave me approx. 2-3mm clearance after using the 1/4 spacers. I did also use them for the back but not for clearance but to make them sit flush like the ones in the front. We all know in the world of spacers you can't go beyond 1/4 without getting 5-7 full rotations on your lugs and hub centrics start at 20mm so if you're between those numbers you'll have to replace your stock studs with longer ones, thank god the 1/4 inch gave me clearance!

Thanks again for your help and didn't want to risk buying wheels from the US to Canada especially when you can't return them! BTW shipping wheels from the US through LMR and other S550 stores are charging us $400-$500USD so for my other SVE R350 wheels it cost me close to 2KCAD for the 19X10's!
 
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heh, there was a lot of "offset" huh. I was sleepless last night and typed that on the phone so there was multiple edits coming back with images, etc. I was just hoping to explain it without making it confusing, because it can become that. I actually just did my research this week to learn all this shit out because I am also running an "aggressive" fitment wheel that really isn't made specifically for our car too (I am doing a 19x9.5 +30mm square with 275/40s). I just got excited I already had an opportunity to share some of the new found wisdom. Though I'm still figuring some of it out.

For the ESR, I was looking at them myself during my wheel selection. I think these wheels are considered to be more of a import/drift style wheel so the offsets, bores, backspacing are different than what our Mustangs wheels typically sit. That's also why I like these style of wheels because you are less likely to see them on another Mustang because it takes a little magic and configuration to get them to sit properly. From what I've seen almost all of these wheels have more aggressive offsets when they get wider (why people run flares for aggressive setups). I am wheel overloaded from all the looking and research over the past few weeks but for these types of wheels they will only be in a 15mm, 22mm, 30mm, and 35mm offset, depending on the width.

Being you can only get the 10.5 in a +22, I think you are better off sticking with the 9.5 wheel because you will have less poke. It would sit 19mm further out than where it is right now. That is right around 3/4 of an inch, or 19mm. If it's already sitting flush in the rear, you are good. If I'm getting where you are at, you wanted to run a setup that didn't require running spacers? I had the same idea but learned it just wasn't going to work that way. Being that these wheels are not designed for our cars specifically that's why they also have issues clearing the brakes. I have brembos so bigger worry for me. I have 5mm and 10mm spacers I am going to test and pray that 5mm will clear. I think even with the 22, it still doesn't change the backspacing, etc so the calipers will still sit in the same spot so you might have to run a spacer regardless. That's were my knowledge to this goes back to learning. So maybe someone else can come in here and add or correct me.

My plan was, if all of my information was wrong and someone called me out on it I was going to say it was all an April fools joke and it was intentional. Still going that route.
Are you noticing some indirect pulls with having wider tires? With my 285/35/19's since these are the second set of wheels with the same tire spec Steeda makes this brace that will help minimze pulling, just ordered mine last night! It was the cheapest price that I could find online for Canadian buyers...

Steeda S550 Ford Mustang Ultralite 2-Point G-Trac Brace 555-5533

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/393170306143


As for the undercarriage support so the car doesn't go wonky under hard acceleration I have the Steeda subframe brace, IRS, subframe & differential bushings and also J&M vertical links.
 
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Also I wanted to check because I ran into this issue as well. With wheels like these, they are more of a universal wheel so they do not have the same hub diameter. Most wheels are hub centric so in order to have them align properly, the hub and the wheel hub bore need to have the same diameter to allow the wheel to line up when tightening the lugs in order to take the stress off the wheel. These wheels tend to run a larger hub bore that way multiple types of cars can use them, and then you use a hub centric ring that is basically a conversion to make it fit. 70.5mm is what our wheel hubs run. These wheels have a hub bore of 72.56 which means there would be a diameter difference of +2mm between the hub and the wheels hub bore, so the wheel would wiggle, which causes vibrations when driving.

What "should" happen is usually the vendor who sells the wheel or the manufacture will include hub centric rings with the shipment that match your vehicle. I did not get any with mine, so I ordered some this morning. If you need hub rings for your current 19x9.5 setup you would need a OD=72.56mm to ID=7.05mm. The ring basically will taper from size to make a snug connection between the wheel and hub. You can also get spacers with the inner and outer diameters so you don't have to run the rings.

If you went to the 10.5 width your wheel hub bore would change to a 73.1, which is actually what mine run, and what I ordered this morning. If you want I can give you the link to them IF you didn't get the rings with the wheels. Or I could be a complete ass, and you already know all of this. I just didn't want you to run into issues down the road.

when i refer to "hub" or "wheel hub" this is what I am talking about:
Wheel-Hub-With-Callouts-1607519599285.jpg


When I refer to "wheel hub bore" this is what I am talking about:
center-bore.jpg


When i refer to hub centric rings, this is what I am referring to, though these can be plastic, metals:
s-l1600.jpg
The ones that they sent me was just black plastic center hub rings which was sent to Lacroix Tuning in Quebec from ESR Wheels and used 1/4 lug centric spacer to support the center bore. The rings I got from www.ESRwheels.com and the 1/4 spacers were from www.CJPonyParts.com
 

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Are you noticing some indirect pulls with having wider tires? With my 285/35/19's since these are the second set of wheels with the same tire spec Steeda makes this brace that will help minimze pulling, just ordered mine last night! It was the cheapest price that I could find online for Canadian buyers...

Steeda S550 Ford Mustang Ultralite 2-Point G-Trac Brace 555-5533

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/393170306143


I haven't fit my wheels yet. I just got them yesterday and it started to rain. It's finally breaking away this morning but I won't be able to test them until I get all my other pieces. This will be my first time running a squared set up on any of my mustangs. I know that the larger wheel you go up front the more tramlining you will get. So you might be feeling the car pulling towards the contour of the road. I'm not good with suspension stuff, I'm not sure what the remedy for that is but I know it never hurts to beef up the IRS components regardless with steedas stuff!
 
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I haven't fit my wheels yet. I just got them yesterday and it started to rain. It's finally breaking away this morning but I won't be able to test them until I get all my other pieces. This will be my first time running a squared set up on any of my mustangs. I know that the larger wheel you go up front the more tramlining you will get. So you might be feeling the car pulling towards the contour of the road. I'm not good with suspension stuff, I'm not sure what the remedy for that is but I know it never hurts to beef up the IRS components regardless with steedas stuff!
Oh you will notice some pulling because you're running 275's squared. I've been dealing with this for the last 4 years as for the first 3 years, you kinda just get use to it and didn't realize that you could buy this G-Trac brace to help reduce it so bought it last night! I took this route on going squared because at least we can rotate the tires and those Firestone Indy 500's are the best wheels by far for $1100CAD. I'm going on 4 years with these tires running them 8 months a year, just amazing!
 
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Awesome. Yeah. I didn't even have that option and didn't realize at the time anyways. just out of curiosity, who did you order from?
Lacroix Tuning in Quebec had ordered them with the ESR CS15 wheels so it came from ESR Wheels in California.
 
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Mounted... 🥰
IMG_20210401_124421_789.jpg
 

 
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