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My ticking ecobomb finally went boom

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lisandra

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Wow, this forum just turned into Match.com. Who calls a lady Mama smurf? If you are interested in a gal, you should work on transparency.
everybody calls my car the smurfette, so that makes me papa smurf, but that doesnt compute so im mama smurf ;)
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ultimate warrior

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The problem with auto's is it doesn't know ahead what you want to do.
Auto makers try to get into high gear like 50mph or so at low throttle (cruising) for good MPG.
Problem comes in when your at that condition but then want to accelerate some. With the small turbo, even though you may increase throttle say 30-50%, thats still plenty to get decent boost.
There a lot of variables that ECU takes in to figure when to shift, load, speed, throttle just to name few.
i get that, but if the trans is dropping into 6th at some idiot low RPM/speed, which effectively has a lower oil pressure, pair that with LSPI potential, then yeah I can see that being extremely destructive even when just doing light cruising.


I tested mine today in 'D'. It shifted into 6th around 45-46mph, and then i lowered the cruise control down. stupid thing held it till 43mph, at 1150rpm. It held that until i clicked it again down to 42mph. How can that be good for the car? how much load would you have to add at that low of an RPM in that high of a gear to overcome the oil pressure?


cliffs: sport mode, always on.
 

FordTechOne

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i get that, but if the trans is dropping into 6th at some idiot low RPM/speed, which effectively has a lower oil pressure, pair that with LSPI potential, then yeah I can see that being extremely destructive even when just doing light cruising.


I tested mine today in 'D'. It shifted into 6th around 45-46mph, and then i lowered the cruise control down. stupid thing held it till 43mph, at 1150rpm. It held that until i clicked it again down to 42mph. How can that be good for the car? how much load would you have to add at that low of an RPM in that high of a gear to overcome the oil pressure?


cliffs: sport mode, always on.
I don't think you are understanding the whole LSPI issue. When Ford builds their tunes, they do extreme amounts of durability testing to ensure that that engine operates well within the safe parameters under all conditions. If your engine lugs at 1150RPM in 6th, that is design intent. It's not going to blow itself up; the Ecoboost isn't the fragile piece of glass that people on here are trying to make it out to be. Of course, those are the same people on here blaming the manufacturer for their engine failures when they are tuned and modded; its just plain laughable :doh:

What do you mean by "overcoming oil pressure"? Oil pressure is based on engine RPM; there is plenty of oil pressure available at 1000RPM to maintain hydrodynamic lubrication of the bearings.

Those who need to worry about LPSI are people who have tuned/modded their cars and have essentially made themselves test pilots for their combination of modifications. 99% of the failures on this forum are on tuned cars. When your modded car spikes to 30 PSI of boost and blows up and then you try and blame the manufacturer and get it warrantied; you really need to find a new hobby.
 

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I don't think you are understanding the whole LSPI issue. When Ford builds their tunes, they do extreme amounts of durability testing to ensure that that engine operates well within the safe parameters under all conditions. If your engine lugs at 1150RPM in 6th, that is design intent. It's not going to blow itself up; the Ecoboost isn't the fragile piece of glass that people on here are trying to make it out to be. Of course, those are the same people on here blaming the manufacturer for their engine failures when they are tuned and modded; its just plain laughable :doh:

What do you mean by "overcoming oil pressure"? Oil pressure is based on engine RPM; there is plenty of oil pressure available at 1000RPM to maintain hydrodynamic lubrication of the bearings.

Those who need to worry about LPSI are people who have tuned/modded their cars and have essentially made themselves test pilots for their combination of modifications. 99% of the failures on this forum are on tuned cars. When your modded car spikes to 30 PSI of boost and blows up and then you try and blame the manufacturer and get it warrantied; you really need to find a new hobby.
I'm assuming you work or have worked for Ford before...anyway can you please explain to us on this forum why some people get approved for there engine repair under warranty with a tune and bolt ons and some of us dont?????
 

RubyRed15

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I don't think you are understanding the whole LSPI issue. When Ford builds their tunes, they do extreme amounts of durability testing to ensure that that engine operates well within the safe parameters under all conditions. If your engine lugs at 1150RPM in 6th, that is design intent.
It had damn well better be, because it happens. To everybody.
 

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ultimate warrior

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I don't think you are understanding the whole LSPI issue. When Ford builds their tunes, they do extreme amounts of durability testing to ensure that that engine operates well within the safe parameters under all conditions. If your engine lugs at 1150RPM in 6th, that is design intent. It's not going to blow itself up; the Ecoboost isn't the fragile piece of glass that people on here are trying to make it out to be. Of course, those are the same people on here blaming the manufacturer for their engine failures when they are tuned and modded; its just plain laughable :doh:

What do you mean by "overcoming oil pressure"? Oil pressure is based on engine RPM; there is plenty of oil pressure available at 1000RPM to maintain hydrodynamic lubrication of the bearings.

Those who need to worry about LPSI are people who have tuned/modded their cars and have essentially made themselves test pilots for their combination of modifications. 99% of the failures on this forum are on tuned cars. When your modded car spikes to 30 PSI of boost and blows up and then you try and blame the manufacturer and get it warrantied; you really need to find a new hobby.

isnt LSPI just that - low speed pre-ignition. a condition that occurs in the cylinder when ignition occurs before its supposed to in a DI engine. because their is no fuel sprayed with the air pre-cylinder like a typical FI vehicle, so the pre-ignition cylinder environment is now unprotected, and along with oil vapor can flash and set off a pre-ignition event as fuel begins to enter the cylinder? why would tuning create that?

what you're referring to is overboost or an over aggressive boost curve.


overcoming oil pressure - load placed on the engine is constantly trying to overcome oil pressure and scar the bearings, but as RPM goes up, oil pressure goes up, so this doesnt happen. in 6th gear you have max potential load on the engine at low RPM. if the car allows itself to cruise at 1150rpm in 6th gear, with the RPM being low (hence the oil pressure being low) i was trying to pose the question - at what RPM is it safe enough for oil pressure vs 6th gear load. i question that, because I dont know the pressure, is 1150rpm in 6th safe? no clue. if I push the throttle down enough it should downshift - but what if its just enough load to overcome the oil pressure lightly to start wearing the bearings as someone rolls back into throttle or cruise control corrects.

pair that with an LSPI event and yeah - it seems like that is 100% no good. the car does not make nearly enough use of 5th gear, and IMHO it goes into 6th gear far earlier than I would ever choose driving a manual.


btw FordTechOne i request that you put me on your IL. I never like your responses and most others dont find them to be terribly productive - just critical and small minded (aka Ford does no wrong - its your fault, Ford makes solid decisions).
 
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Edkiefer

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i get that, but if the trans is dropping into 6th at some idiot low RPM/speed, which effectively has a lower oil pressure, pair that with LSPI potential, then yeah I can see that being extremely destructive even when just doing light cruising.


I tested mine today in 'D'. It shifted into 6th around 45-46mph, and then i lowered the cruise control down. stupid thing held it till 43mph, at 1150rpm. It held that until i clicked it again down to 42mph. How can that be good for the car? how much load would you have to add at that low of an RPM in that high of a gear to overcome the oil pressure?


cliffs: sport mode, always on.
Don't worry about oil pressure, but yeh that low rpm on 2.3L 3500lb car will feel it lugging.
I am surprised it can hold that rpm ok, w/o going up and down on vacuum/boost depending on road grade.
The thing is they don't want to make it to sensitive or tranny will never find proper gear and feel like it hunting all the time.

I haven't driven a auto so can't comment on it.
 

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I don't get how some people modify their car for more performance and when it blows up expects the dealer or ford to cover it. When you modify your car for more hp, I.E. boost, tune, headers, etc ford or GM or Mercedes Benz who ever does not have to cover it. Period. You could own a brand new F150 and buy it without a trailer towing package, and install a transmission cooler yourself and say the trans blows up, ford doesn't have to cover it.
 

perfweld

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I don't get how some people modify their car for more performance and when it blows up expects the dealer or ford to cover it. When you modify your car for more hp, I.E. boost, tune, headers, etc ford or GM or Mercedes Benz who ever does not have to cover it. Period. You could own a brand new F150 and buy it without a trailer towing package, and install a transmission cooler yourself and say the trans blows up, ford doesn't have to cover it.
I agree, I had to take my car to the dealer for power steering warranty, the service writer asked me to keep a log on when I change the oil, I told her that the way I race this car I am liable for the engine if it breaks, she was surprised that I said that. If and when I break my engine, its on my dime, im happy to pay the bill, im too honest to take advantage of anyone that way.
 

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ultimate warrior

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I don't get how some people modify their car for more performance and when it blows up expects the dealer or ford to cover it. When you modify your car for more hp, I.E. boost, tune, headers, etc ford or GM or Mercedes Benz who ever does not have to cover it. Period. You could own a brand new F150 and buy it without a trailer towing package, and install a transmission cooler yourself and say the trans blows up, ford doesn't have to cover it.
because with these specific motors in this heavy of a chassis with a less than properly tuned transmission we're not (100%) sure if the motor is faulty from the factory by design or if they're just getting damaged normaly from improper parts/tune/random motor failure.


with some of these - yes, bad aftermarket parts, wrong fuel, and improper installation have claimed at least 3. guess that another 2 of them were just bad luck of the draw, and it doesn't leave many left that we know of here.
 

FordTechOne

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I'm assuming you work or have worked for Ford before...anyway can you please explain to us on this forum why some people get approved for there engine repair under warranty with a tune and bolt ons and some of us dont?????
I haven't worked for any manufacturers, and I currently don't work for any dealers. However, I can tell you that all manufacturers are the same; they provide the dealer franchise with warranty guidelines and hold the dealer accountable to follow them.

If a dealer is foolish enough to perform warranty work on a vehicle that has been modified and the modifications are a possible cause of the failure, the manufacturer will charge the dealer back for the full claim amount if they find that the vehicle modifications were the root cause. If the dealer suspects modifications as the root cause of the failure but can't reach a decision, the manufacturer will often send a representative to assist. Anyone who gets a tuned engine warrantied for a failure is obviously at a dealer who doesn't understand that the manufacturers warranty only covers defects, NOT damage caused by aftermarket modifications. Not to mention, that is considered warranty fraud.
 
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FordTechOne

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isnt LSPI just that - low speed pre-ignition. a condition that occurs in the cylinder when ignition occurs before its supposed to in a DI engine. because their is no fuel sprayed with the air pre-cylinder like a typical FI vehicle, so the pre-ignition cylinder environment is now unprotected, and along with oil vapor can flash and set off a pre-ignition event as fuel begins to enter the cylinder? why would tuning create that?

what you're referring to is overboost or an over aggressive boost curve.
No, what I'm referring to is what I said. Tuning most definitely affects the possibility of LSPI occurring; it is mainly due to improper ignition timing and fuel injection event timing. Improper ignition timing alone can send cylinder temperatures skyrocketing. LSPI can also be induced by excessive cylinder pressures, which is why a tune that increases boost above factory levels can result in LSPI.

And despite what you seem to think, DI engines are not diesels. They don't inject fuel all at once when the piston is at TDC; that would give the fuel exactly zero time to atomize within the combustion chamber.

overcoming oil pressure - load placed on the engine is constantly trying to overcome oil pressure and scar the bearings, but as RPM goes up, oil pressure goes up, so this doesnt happen. in 6th gear you have max potential load on the engine at low RPM. if the car allows itself to cruise at 1150rpm in 6th gear, with the RPM being low (hence the oil pressure being low) i was trying to pose the question - at what RPM is it safe enough for oil pressure vs 6th gear load. i question that, because I dont know the pressure, is 1150rpm in 6th safe? no clue. if I push the throttle down enough it should downshift - but what if its just enough load to overcome the oil pressure lightly to start wearing the bearings as someone rolls back into throttle or cruise control corrects.
Hydrodynamic lubrication provides an extremely strong film of oil to prevent the bearing journal from coming into contact with the bearing itself during operation. For example, only a few PSI of oil pressure is required to maintain bearing lubrication at idle.

The oil pump on the Ecoboost 2.3 is able to provide up to 60 PSI at only 2,000RPM. Therefore, even at 1150RPM, where is still more than sufficient oil pressure to maintain bearing lubrication, even under a load. It's not something to worry about.

pair that with an LSPI event and yeah - it seems like that is 100% no good. the car does not make nearly enough use of 5th gear, and IMHO it goes into 6th gear far earlier than I would ever choose driving a manual.
Once again....Ford does extensive testing to ensure that your dreaded LSPI doesn't occur with the factory tune. It's MODIFIED vehicles that have the greatest threat of LSPI. My 2.7 Ecoboost will pull hills in 6th gear at 1100RPM without an issue, and that's on 87 octane. Do I panic and manually downshift it to 5th?? Of course not, because the factory tune is designed to allow the engine to operate safely under all conditions that may be encountered.

btw FordTechOne i request that you put me on your IL. I never like your responses and most others dont find them to be terribly productive - just critical and small minded (aka Ford does no wrong - its your fault, Ford makes solid decisions).
Of course you would like that, because you don't like to be called out for being wrong. Unfortunately, spreading nonsense and misinformation is not helpful to anyone, so I will continue to post the facts to clear things up for you.
 

ultimate warrior

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No, what I'm referring to is what I said. Tuning most definitely affects the possibility of LSPI occurring; it is mainly due to improper ignition timing and fuel injection event timing. Improper ignition timing alone can send cylinder temperatures skyrocketing. LSPI can also be induced by excessive cylinder pressures, which is why a tune that increases boost above factory levels can result in LSPI.

And despite what you seem to think, DI engines are not diesels. They don't inject fuel all at once when the piston is at TDC; that would give the fuel exactly zero time to atomize within the combustion chamber.



Hydrodynamic lubrication provides an extremely strong film of oil to prevent the bearing journal from coming into contact with the bearing itself during operation. For example, only a few PSI of oil pressure is required to maintain bearing lubrication at idle.

The oil pump on the Ecoboost 2.3 is able to provide up to 60 PSI at only 2,000RPM. Therefore, even at 1150RPM, where is still more than sufficient oil pressure to maintain bearing lubrication, even under a load. It's not something to worry about.



Once again....Ford does extensive testing to ensure that your dreaded LSPI doesn't occur with the factory tune. It's MODIFIED vehicles that have the greatest threat of LSPI. My 2.7 Ecoboost will pull hills in 6th gear at 1100RPM without an issue, and that's on 87 octane. Do I panic and manually downshift it to 5th?? Of course not, because the factory tune is designed to allow the engine to operate safely under all conditions that may be encountered.

gotcha so DI engines all come from the factory correct, only aftermarket tuning can create LSPI, and oil vapor/residue/composition has nothing to do with LSPI. Only incorrect tuning?

just making sure I clearly understand what you're saying.
 

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So I got to page 5 of this thread and I have come to the conclusion 99% of the ecoboost that blow up are from user error.
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