My Bolt on 2018 Mustang GT vs 2021 Camaro ZL1

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I went through this process considering a ZL1 or z06, ended up deciding to just supercharge my GT since I think it has more hp potential without building the motor than the zl1's or z06's. I guess the zl1 10r90 is rated for more torque though. The thing about coyotes is they make a lot of hp but not too much torque which is good for higher max potential hp I think. Also didnt want to trade my car in for like 27k and get a 65k car

I have heard that the LT4 engine can easily handle 1000 rwhp (with fuel system upgrades). I would think that an engine like the LT4 that comes from the factory already supercharged is stronger than an engine that isn't supercharged like the Gen 3 Coyote, although I realize the Coyote is fairly strong and responds well to boost from a power perspective. That said, think about how much Ford Performance beefed up the GT500 5.2 liter Predator vs. the Gen 3 Coyote stock internals. The LT4 has forged pistons, forged powdered metal rods, forged crank, and stronger head castings that take heat better than the normal LT1 heads. The Coyote has a forged crank but I'm not sure how strong it is in comparison to the LT4 crank. Also, the entire drivetrain in the ZL1 is designed to handle 650 ft-lbs and maintain a warranty, so it's going to be more robust than the Mustang GT's drivetrain as well.

I realize that more power can be had with a supercharged Coyote than a stock LT4, however, remember you can always mod the ZL1 as well. The reason I am upgrading from my GT to a ZL1 is the ZL1 is better than the sum of its parts: Great engine, great handling, great steering, great trans and transmissions programming, menacing looks, and an official top speed of 198 mph, and a warranty even for the track (that tells me the engineering and GM's confidence in the car is rock solid). I don't care about top speed, but there's something about knowing how much effort goes into the aero of a car that can hit 200 mph.

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[Idaho2018GTPremium]

unless you changed the rev limit, the torque is what changes when you add a blower. HP is just an equation.

Horsepower is work done over time, so it is a real thing, and not "just" an equation. It's the same as kW (1 hp = .746 kW). HP is derived from torque and engine speed so some people think it is a fictional unit. It's as real as kW, which is a real unit of power.

That said, what many people don't understand is how torque and hp relate to make a car accelerate. Torque at the rear wheels IS what accelerates a vehicle. Without adequate hp, however, that torque can't be sustained and turned into rapid acceleration. Imagine a high torque, low hp low revving engine - they don't generally make a car accelerate quickly over time - but they can make a car momentarily feel like it's accelerating quickly but not for very long. Now imagine the opposite - for example, a Porsche 911 GT3 RS - they make 520 hp but only 346 ft-lbs of torque and rev to 9000 rpm. However, because of the high hp/high rpm potential, they use aggressive gearing to multiply the torque delivered to the rear wheels and actually deliver a fair amout of torque to the rear wheels for a long time, and thus, this "low torque" engine can do the 1/4 mile in 11.0 @ 129 mph.

 

[Andy13186]

I guess I may have been thinking of the lt1 having much lower max hp limits than the new coyotes.


https://www.hotrod.com/articles/2019-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-built-break-stock-lt4-blower-record/

https://www.lsxmag.com/news/in-the-8s-stock-internal-c7-z06-corvette-sets-lt4-record/

The lt4 doesnt seem to have anything near the stock bottom end coyote record et times though, we have 8.2's on stock motor turbo cars etc. I think its because the HP to torque ratio allowing more HP to survive on coyotes.

But for handling I do hear the new camaros are a better platform. We dont have turns here in Florida though. I would hate to lose dragstrip mode , that mode is perfect for hooning and rolling burnouts. And like Ken Miles said in Ford Vs Ferrari "life begins at 7000 rpm." lol

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I guess I may have been thinking of the lt1 having much lower max hp limits than the new coyotes.


https://www.hotrod.com/articles/2019-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-built-break-stock-lt4-blower-record/

https://www.lsxmag.com/news/in-the-8s-stock-internal-c7-z06-corvette-sets-lt4-record/

The lt4 doesnt seem to have anything near the stock bottom end coyote record et times though, we have 8.2's on stock motor turbo cars etc. I think its because the HP to torque ratio allowing more HP to survive on coyotes.

But for handling I do hear the new camaros are a better platform. We dont have turns here in Florida though. I would hate to lose dragstrip mode , that mode is perfect for hooning and rolling burnouts. And like Ken Miles said in Ford Vs Ferrari "life begins at 7000 rpm." lol

To be fair, those links are of LT4s with the stock blower (ported). Swapping to a larger supercharger can net a lot more power. That Corvette went 8.9 @ 146.8 mph with stock cam, heads, lifters, springs, etc., and on E50. Not too shabby.

 

[ice445]

I have heard that the LT4 engine can easily handle 1000 rwhp (with fuel system upgrades). I would think that an engine like the LT4 that comes from the factory already supercharged is stronger than an engine that isn't supercharged like the Gen 3 Coyote, although I realize the Coyote is fairly strong and responds well to boost from a power perspective. That said, think about how much Ford Performance beefed up the GT500 5.2 liter Predator vs. the Gen 3 Coyote stock internals. The LT4 has forged pistons, forged powdered metal rods, forged crank, and stronger head castings that take heat better than the normal LT1 heads. The Coyote has a forged crank but I'm not sure how strong it is in comparison to the LT4 crank. Also, the entire drivetrain in the ZL1 is designed to handle 650 ft-lbs and maintain a warranty, so it's going to be more robust than the Mustang GT's drivetrain as well.

I realize that more power can be had with a supercharged Coyote than a stock LT4, however, remember you can always mod the ZL1 as well. The reason I am upgrading from my GT to a ZL1 is the ZL1 is better than the sum of its parts: Great engine, great handling, great steering, great trans and transmissions programming, menacing looks, and an official top speed of 198 mph, and a warranty even for the track (that tells me the engineering and GM's confidence in the car is rock solid). I don't care about top speed, but there's something about knowing how much effort goes into the aero of a car that can hit 200 mph.

The Coyote is built pretty strong for a naturally aspirated engine. Likely because revs are pretty hard on internal parts if the engine isn't built to accommodate it. That plus the sustained power curve with lower part shattering torque spikes means they play very nice with boost.

 

[mustangpegasus51]

I test drove a ZL1 a while ago and it definitely felt powerful. However to get any rumble out of the engine it seemed like I had to get uncomfortably close to death's door. I'd actually prefer the SS, but the horrendous facelift on the lower trims has kept me looking far away.

 

[IrishStallion]

ZL1 is cool car. A bolt on E85 tune a10 will easily run with stock one up to 115 mph or so. See ya...

 

[IrishStallion]

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

ZL1 is cool car. A bolt on E85 tune a10 will easily run with stock one up to 115 mph or so. See ya...

I guess that's true as the LT4 only runs about 9 lbs of boost. But what happens when the ZL1 goes FBO and tuned on E50 or smaller pulley+tune for more boost?

I'm not buying the ZL1 only for its straight line capabilities, which are good compared to most other factory cars, but also for the chassis, suspension, steering, stronger trans., and yes, the looks and interior feel (which I decided I like better than my Mustang after my test drive due to it feeling more sporty). I'll see how the livability and ergos shape out, but I don't take my car on long trips or use it for utility, so I'm not too worried about that stuff.

 

[IrishStallion]

I guess that's true as the LT4 only runs about 9 lbs of boost. But what happens when the ZL1 goes FBO and tuned on E50 or smaller pulley+tune for more boost?

I'm not buying the ZL1 only for its straight line capabilities, which are good compared to most other factory cars, but also for the chassis, suspension, steering, stronger trans., and yes, the looks and interior feel (which I decided I like better than my Mustang after my test drive due to it feeling more sporty). I'll see how the livability and ergos shape out, but I don't take my car on long trips or use it for utility, so I'm not too worried about that stuff.

Dude you can’t explain jack in under 10 paragraphs. You spend all this money on weight loss/porting that still equates to less than E85 tune. lol. Good luck. Camaro forums need another Engineer to Man Splain things...

 

[Mustang_Lou]

Nice reading the comparison but the ZL1 is considerably more $ than a GT so you'd expect the performance to be better.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Nice reading the comparison but the ZL1 is considerably more $ than a GT so you'd expect the performance to be better.

Thanks. Yes, I did expect it to be better. My biggest takeaway was, for me, it was worth the extra cost to upgrade.

 

[dn1984]

Go on E85 and your car will feel very similar to the ZL1 in terms of acceleration. I used to drive them all the time as an internet manager at a Chevy store...

Your main advantage with the ZL1 will be power upgrades

 

[ice445]

Thanks. Yes, I did expect it to be better. My biggest takeaway was, for me, it was worth the extra cost to upgrade.

So are you justifying your upgrade to the forum, or to yourself? The ZL1 is obviously more car than anything sans the GT500, but it costs more to reflect that.

My ONLY issue with the ZL1 personally is that the Z06 and ZR1 exist ;)

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

So are you justifying your upgrade to the forum, or to yourself? The ZL1 is obviously more car than anything sans the GT500, but it costs more to reflect that.

My ONLY issue with the ZL1 personally is that the Z06 and ZR1 exist ;)

The upgrade was justified in my mind during the test drive. Not trying to justify it to anyone here, just giving my impressions and thoughts with a comparison between the two. Obviously, they aren't direct competitors since the ZL1 is has much more performance capabilities than a GT PP1. And I agree with your statement above that I bolded, but I'd add a caveat that for the money, the ZL1 is more performance car than anything available - GT500 included since comparably equipped msrp to msrp it is at nearly $11k more expensive - and that's ignoring the fact that the ZL1 can often be had for under msrp, while the GT500 is usually going for over msrp.

That said, I'd love to drive a base GT500 but the Ford dealership I purchased my Mustang from wasn't allowing test drives. I can't blame them, and they are charging way over msrp anyway, so I probably wouldn't have bought it at the price they were asking.

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