Mustang vs ZLE

[Jmtoast]

That is probably me. Lol

We will see. I got the manual zle (back to the origin cause as italian we don't have automatics. 90% are manual cars). It is fun and i suspect that because huge low and mid torque i won't change gears oftem on track

lol... yeah that was you. I love my A10 and that visibility was too much for me but otherwise it's a fantastic car. I was really torn between the ZL1 and a boosted mustang A10.

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[kz]

Link to article where Fiesta ST beat Z06s and a GT350 on track. Of course it's a tiny track with lots of tight corners.
https://www.fordmuscle.com/features...art-5-driver-comforts-and-yokohama-a052-test/

Autocross is not a track - that's first. It's not even remotely close to being one.
Second, bringing this article seriously - as I respect you - shows you have no idea what you are talking about. At autocross, you have all kinds of random people and Fiesta beating a Vette or GT350 on a random local event means absolutely nothing.
Compare their raw times from Solo Nationals and then we can talk.

If your "GT500 will walk ZLE" is as accurate as that, poor GT500. In reality, you have to be able to extract performance from either car which vast majority of people owning them is unable to. There is not question that stock ZLE's suspension is way ahead of anything else in Pony cars though.

 

[Hack]

Autocross is not a track - that's first. It's not even remotely close to being one.
Second, bringing this article seriously - as I respect you - shows you have no idea what you are talking about. At autocross, you have all kinds of random people and Fiesta beating a Vette or GT350 on a random local event means absolutely nothing.
Compare their raw times from Solo Nationals and then we can talk.

If your "GT500 will walk ZLE" is as accurate as that, poor GT500. In reality, you have to be able to extract performance from either car which vast majority of people owning them is unable to. There is not question that stock ZLE's suspension is way ahead of anything else in Pony cars though.

Yes there is always driver ability as a variable. Are you disputing that lighter cars with stickier tires have an advantage when the turns get tighter and the straights get shorter? Or are you just not understanding the point I was making?

With respect to your second paragraph - do you have your own judgement? What do you think will happen when one car has 70 HP more? It's not rocket science. Do you think that my comments change which car is quicker?

Stock ZL1 1LE's suspension is way ahead of anything else in pony cars? That's laughable. Are you saying that the Camaro's McPherson strut front and multi-link rear is completely different than the Mustang's McPherson strut front and multi-link rear? It's not like the Camaro has an SLA suspension like a Corvette that would actually be inherently superior. Suspension design doesn't have to be superior if you just stiffen it up so much that the suspension doesn't move much. It's a tried and true philosophy. It doesn't make for an enjoyable ride, but it does produce relatively quick lap times.

 

[Jmtoast]

Autocross is not a track - that's first. It's not even remotely close to being one.
Second, bringing this article seriously - as I respect you - shows you have no idea what you are talking about. At autocross, you have all kinds of random people and Fiesta beating a Vette or GT350 on a random local event means absolutely nothing.
Compare their raw times from Solo Nationals and then we can talk.

If your "GT500 will walk ZLE" is as accurate as that, poor GT500. In reality, you have to be able to extract performance from either car which vast majority of people owning them is unable to. There is not question that stock ZLE's suspension is way ahead of anything else in Pony cars though.

Yeah I don't buy that either. I would like to see actual evidence on that from multiple unbiased professional sources who have put both to the test. From what I have seen ZLE's have some of the fastest track times. I'm no expert but you don't have to see the top 20 lists at well know tracks.

 

[kz]

Yes there is always driver ability as a variable. Are you disputing that lighter cars with stickier tires have an advantage when the turns get tighter and the straights get shorter? Or are you just not understanding the point I was making?

You tried to made your point using "track" that has absolutely zero relevance to any real road course that exists and the example of FiST you brought up was - forgive me the language - incredibly dumb - someone's article lifting his ego on raw timing likely a couple of novices on a local autocross.

 

[Flyhalf]

Yes there is always driver ability as a variable. Are you disputing that lighter cars with stickier tires have an advantage when the turns get tighter and the straights get shorter? Or are you just not understanding the point I was making?

With respect to your second paragraph - do you have your own judgement? What do you think will happen when one car has 70 HP more? It's not rocket science. Do you think that my comments change which car is quicker?

Stock ZL1 1LE's suspension is way ahead of anything else in pony cars? That's laughable. Are you saying that the Camaro's McPherson strut front and multi-link rear is completely different than the Mustang's McPherson strut front and multi-link rear? It's not like the Camaro has an SLA suspension like a Corvette that would actually be inherently superior. Suspension design doesn't have to be superior if you just stiffen it up so much that the suspension doesn't move much. It's a tried and true philosophy. It doesn't make for an enjoyable ride, but it does produce relatively quick lap times.

I researched a lot the argument.
I respectfully disagree with your post.
For TRACK purposes The ZLE is just a superior car.
Here's some points
1. Suspension. The ZLE (zl1 1le) comes with DSSV SUSPENSION. The same brand that the ford GT mounts. They are way superior than magnaride.
2. Weight. 200lbs lighter is somenthing in a 4000 lbs car. 5%
3. Chassis. Camaro chassis is just superior than the mustang one. That is also whynthe SS1LE can beat 350 or be right there with her.
3. Fuel and tires consumption. Important fornboth but apperently with the gt500 u can emptyna tank in one session (or 2).also tires in +4000 car suffer
4. Aero while both pretty efficient apperently ZLE has more DF
5. PRICE. ZLE costs 70k vs gt500 north of 100k .with 30k upgrades the camaro will just be unbeatable.
And a ss1le can be around 40k40k compare to a way more expensive gt350 (although the SS is ugly )

They tested both cars with RANDY POBST at willow springs which is the fastest west circuit (1.30 laptime = 100mph average).
The ZLE was a second faster than the gt500. (Yes there was the issue of used tires on gt500 butneven if they where equal i think you get the point. )
Here the article. There is also the video on youtube.

https://ls1tech.com/articles/camaro-zl1-1le-smokes-gt500-redeye-in-hot-laps/

I do want to point out one thing.
The ZL1 1LE is NOT a car you can daily. It is just too stiff. Loke a lot.
Side nite the interior of this camaro are beautiful. Great seats and attention to the details. I wasn't expecting that. So nice surprise.

Alessandro

 

[Hack]

You tried to made your point using "track" that has absolutely zero relevance to any real road course that exists and the example of FiST you brought up was - forgive me the language - incredibly dumb - someone's article lifting his ego on raw timing likely a couple of novices on a local autocross.

It absolutely has relevance when the point is that smaller tracks favor one car or another. It could be that the drivers were novices, but you should probably assume that they are not. Most track novices don't own Z06s or GT350s. I love how when a Ford does ok you think that the other driver has to be incompetent.

Small tracks favor the low powered Camaro because it has very stiff suspension and is slightly lighter.

I researched a lot the argument.
I respectfully disagree with your post.
For TRACK purposes The ZLE is just a superior car.
Here's some points
1. Suspension. The ZLE (zl1 1le) comes with DSSV SUSPENSION. The same brand that the ford GT mounts. They are way superior than magnaride.
2. Weight. 200lbs lighter is somenthing in a 4000 lbs car. 5%
3. Chassis. Camaro chassis is just superior than the mustang one. That is also whynthe SS1LE can beat 350 or be right there with her.
3. Fuel and tires consumption. Important fornboth but apperently with the gt500 u can emptyna tank in one session (or 2).also tires in +4000 car suffer
4. Aero while both pretty efficient apperently ZLE has more DF
5. PRICE. ZLE costs 70k vs gt500 north of 100k .with 30k upgrades the camaro will just be unbeatable.
And a ss1le can be around 40k40k compare to a way more expensive gt350 (although the SS is ugly )

They tested both cars with RANDY POBST at willow springs which is the fastest west circuit (1.30 laptime = 100mph average).
The ZLE was a second faster than the gt500. (Yes there was the issue of used tires on gt500 butneven if they where equal i think you get the point. )
Here the article. There is also the video on youtube.

https://ls1tech.com/articles/camaro-zl1-1le-smokes-gt500-redeye-in-hot-laps/

I do want to point out one thing.
The ZL1 1LE is NOT a car you can daily. It is just too stiff. Loke a lot.
Side nite the interior of this camaro are beautiful. Great seats and attention to the details. I wasn't expecting that. So nice surprise.

Alessandro

I agree the ZL1 1LE is slightly better for track only use if you want to spend that kind of money and use the vehicle only on the track. Seems dumb to me, but mostly it's spec'ed out for bragging rights of people like you that don't own one.

BTW, DSSV isn't a suspension, it's a SHOCK. I realize GM calls it a DSSV suspension, but they didn't change all the links and pickup points in the ZL1 1LE. I do like the camber/caster adjustment setup they put in the car. That is a nice touch.

If I were buying a Camaro for track use I would buy the SS 1LE. It's a much better balanced platform and the suspension won't kill you on the street. The SS 1LE is a lot better all around car IMO. If you had to have more power I would by far choose the regular ZL1 over the ZL1 1LE.

No one has ever proven to me that Camaro has a better chassis than the Mustang. From what I can tell, Mustangs all across the board are set up with a more compliant suspension than the Camaro. And that is the biggest difference. Mustangs are set up more for comfort on the street. Actually more than I would prefer, until you get to the GT350 setup. That IMO is a nearly perfect amount of stiffness for everyday driving. And from what I understand the GT500 is more compliant than the GT350 and still is extremely quick on track.

 

[Flyhalf]

My friend has a 350R and gt500.
He bought gt500 for daily (selling his hellcat) .he said gt500 is stiff. But he only drive 5miles to work.

But i agree
Zl1 1le is not a great daily
The DSSV is yes a shock and part of the suspension. But a main character. And way superior than the magnaride.

A zl1 1le is still a fun car for the weekends. (Btw I'm daily her and I'm still alive )
Than you say is a little dumb to buy a 70k car for track only while you would spend 100k+ for a car (gt500)that is just a little more comfortable for daily. I would keep the 70k car for fan and buy a normal 30k car for daily (for better mileage,wearing , forgivness in case of rocks or accident etc)

However i dont think either of those are daily cars. They are fun and fast. So track and weekends cars IMHO.

I just can't spend 120k for a ford. At that price tag i think you find better cars( i. E. Porsche)
Alex

 

[shogun32]

The ZL1 1LE is NOT a car you can daily. It is just too stiff. Loke a lot.

it is indeed a pity GM didn't tell Multimatic to figure out their highspeed compression circuit instead of accepting that mess. It's completely uncalled for and unnecessary. And the spring rates at ~3x the rate in the SS/1LE are also vastly higher than they should be for any attempt at street use.

The ZLE rides fairly similarly to my Steeda Dual-rate + Pro-action adjustables on my GT with the proviso that square edged bumps put too much impact force into the chassis. A muffled thump should be what they valved for instead of a sharp whack.

The SS/1LE is really, really, really good. The Magneride is vastly better than Ford's GT350 attempt.

 

[Adamone92]

I researched a lot the argument.
I respectfully disagree with your post.
For TRACK purposes The ZLE is just a superior car.
Here's some points
1. Suspension. The ZLE (zl1 1le) comes with DSSV SUSPENSION. The same brand that the ford GT mounts. They are way superior than magnaride.
2. Weight. 200lbs lighter is somenthing in a 4000 lbs car. 5%
3. Chassis. Camaro chassis is just superior than the mustang one. That is also whynthe SS1LE can beat 350 or be right there with her.
3. Fuel and tires consumption. Important fornboth but apperently with the gt500 u can emptyna tank in one session (or 2).also tires in +4000 car suffer
4. Aero while both pretty efficient apperently ZLE has more DF
5. PRICE. ZLE costs 70k vs gt500 north of 100k .with 30k upgrades the camaro will just be unbeatable.
And a ss1le can be around 40k40k compare to a way more expensive gt350 (although the SS is ugly )

They tested both cars with RANDY POBST at willow springs which is the fastest west circuit (1.30 laptime = 100mph average).
The ZLE was a second faster than the gt500. (Yes there was the issue of used tires on gt500 butneven if they where equal i think you get the point. )
Here the article. There is also the video on youtube.

https://ls1tech.com/articles/camaro-zl1-1le-smokes-gt500-redeye-in-hot-laps/

I do want to point out one thing.
The ZL1 1LE is NOT a car you can daily. It is just too stiff. Loke a lot.
Side nite the interior of this camaro are beautiful. Great seats and attention to the details. I wasn't expecting that. So nice surprise.

Alessandro

I agree with most.

I think the 2ss 1le looks better than the zl1 though personally.

And im not a huge fan of the interior. Its ok imo

Both of these things are subjective and depend on the person though

 

[Jmtoast]

Yeah the interior s like the inside of a coffin. Plush and hard to see out of.

 

[Adamone92]

Yeah the interior s like the inside of a coffin. Plush and hard to see out of.

The center console air vents are what kills it for me. Super ugly imo.

Visibility isnt great but liveable.

The rest i like pretty much. But those huge air vents are just an eyesore

 

[shogun32]

The center console air vents are what kills it for me. Super ugly imo.

except they actually work. It puts air at the stomach which cools the torso instead of freezing the forearm. They are rather big I agree but I don't spend my time looking that low on the center console - because I'm desperately using the periscope to see outside the bathtub.

 

[Adamone92]

except they actually work. It puts air at the stomach which cools the torso instead of freezing the forearm. They are rather big I agree but I don't spend my time looking that low on the center console - because I'm desperately using the periscope to see outside the bathtub.

Oh sure..i can agree with that. The comments were purely speaking from an aesthetic perspective. I wish they could perform as they do..but not be an eyesore. Lol. Its something i could get over..but an eyesore nonetheless.

 

[Jmtoast]

except they actually work. It puts air at the stomach which cools the torso instead of freezing the forearm. They are rather big I agree but I don't spend my time looking that low on the center console - because I'm desperately using the periscope to see outside the bathtub.

Yeah I think on the outside they look better once you get into the Higher trims like the LE1. That LE1 had me really conflicted with my GM discount. Unfortunately though life is in the inside and that was not my cup of tea

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