Sponsored

Mustang vs ZLE

Idaho2018GTPremium

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Threads
20
Messages
1,506
Reaction score
1,312
Location
Idaho
Vehicle(s)
2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
Better is highly subjective. Faster is the only term that isn't really subjective given all test conditions were equal (even same day same driver can have drastically different density altitudes if they were done several hours apart, affecting times or speed).

What makes a car better to one person may not resonate with another.

My Mustang GT is better for me than a Camaro SS similarly equipped for a lot of reasons. A massive list, actually. That said, the ZL1 is better FOR ME because the performance is so high (not just the extra hp, but the handling, steering, chassis tightness, transmission programming, Recaro seats, etc.), that it negates some items on my list that makes me prefer the GT over the SS, with those being closer in performance.

For example:
Trunk opening in the ZL1 too small? Oh well, I'll live with it. Visibility not great? I barely noticed it while driving the ZL1. Back seat slightly smaller? Oh well. Rear end better looking in the Mustang GT? Yep, but the ZL1's rear isn't half bad either. And have you seen the ZL1's front half? Menacing and awesome looking! Parked next to the ZL1, my GT front end and hood looks plain in comparison.

Those are subjective items that matter to me but I can easily overlook due to the performance potential and other benefits of the ZL1. And for clarity, I understand the ZL1 is more expensive than my GT ($49k msrp vs $69k msrp) so one would expect the ZL1 to be a better performance car. And it is, my point is there's enough of a gap in performance potential and feel that it's worth it even at the extra cost, all things considered (good and compromises).
Sponsored

 

Adamone92

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
1,352
Reaction score
914
Location
California
First Name
Adam
Vehicle(s)
2018 mustang gt
Better is highly subjective. Faster is the only term that isn't really subjective given all test conditions were equal (even same day same driver can have drastically different density altitudes if they were done several hours apart, affecting times or speed).

What makes a car better to one person may not resonate with another.

My Mustang GT is better for me than a Camaro SS similarly equipped for a lot of reasons. A massive list, actually. That said, the ZL1 is better FOR ME because the performance is so high (not just the extra hp, but the handling, steering, chassis tightness, transmission programming, Recaro seats, etc.), that it negates some items on my list

For example:
Trunk opening in the ZL1 too small? Oh well, I'll live with it. Visibility not great? I barely noticed it while driving the ZL1. Back seat slightly smaller? Oh well. Rear end better looking in the Mustang GT? Yep, but the ZL1's rear isn't half bad either. And have you seen the ZL1's front half? Menacing and awesome looking! Parked next to the ZL1, my GT front end and hood looks plain in comparison.
Agree..but also slightly confused.

I assume you mean the standard ss?

Because the ss 1le has all of those, except a few small cosmetic parts that can be added..and obviously the supercharger. From my understanding, the ss 1le handles better than the zl1 as well (i could be wrong, genuinely curious) The zl1 1le is different though.
 
Last edited:

Idaho2018GTPremium

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Threads
20
Messages
1,506
Reaction score
1,312
Location
Idaho
Vehicle(s)
2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
Agree..but also slightly confused.

I assume you mean the standard ss?

Because the ss 1le has all of those, except a few small cosmetic parts that can be added..and obviously the supercharger. From my understanding, the ss 1le handles better than the zl1 as well (i could be wrong, genuinely curious) The zl1 1le is different though.
Yeah, I was referring to the regular SS, not an SLE (short for SS 1LE like ZLE is short for ZL1 1LE). SS 1LE wasn't really on my radar of potential upgrades to my GT; I may have unintentionally downplayed the importance of the extra power of the ZL1...To upgrade from my Mustang I wanted something with more power with a warranty and with all of those other things the ZL1 and SLE have.

Regarding the handling; the ZL1 is definitely quicker around a track than the SLE (I don't think anyone is questioning that). The SLE may feel better to some since it is lighter up front, but the ZL1 suspension is similar and obviously tuned for that extra weight of the supercharger and intercoolers, and handles it extremely well, and only slightly suffers in the weight distribution (54/46 vs 53/47, rounded). The ZL1 really isn't that much heavier than an A10 SS. 3,925 lbs vs 3,788 lbs (per C&D). I'm assuming an SLE with an auto would weigh about the same as the SS auto. So, weight wise, going from an auto SS to the ZL1 isn't nearly like going from a Mustang GT PP1 (~3,800 lbs) to a base GT500 (4,171 lbs).
 

Adamone92

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
1,352
Reaction score
914
Location
California
First Name
Adam
Vehicle(s)
2018 mustang gt
Yeah, I was referring to the regular SS, not an SLE (short for SS 1LE like ZLE is short for ZL1 1LE). SS 1LE wasn't really on my radar of potential upgrades to my GT; I may have unintentionally downplayed the importance of the extra power of the ZL1...To upgrade from my Mustang I wanted something with more power with a warranty and with all of those other things the ZL1 and SLE have.
Makes sense. Was just curious.
 

newmoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Threads
20
Messages
513
Reaction score
438
Location
NC
Vehicle(s)
04 Cobra, 10 SS, 12 392, 12 5.0
You must be on a different internet than i am
Really?
MotorTrend.
"The thing is, when you get these two studs on a winding canyon road, the Shelby is the car you want to be driving. That steering simply comes alive. The GT350R sports one of the best-feeling front ends I've had the privilege of experiencing. It's simply excellent. This Shelby's shifter shifts better, the engine feels better (who wouldn't take an 8,250-rpm redline over a 6,500-rpm limit?), the brake pedal feels better, and the car is simply sportier in every way. The R's just more fun to drive. Again, I'm not sure how Ford Performance did it, but I think there's a layer of pixie dust baked into the GT350R. I might call it a thing divine."
 

Sponsored

Adamone92

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
1,352
Reaction score
914
Location
California
First Name
Adam
Vehicle(s)
2018 mustang gt
Really?
MotorTrend.
"The thing is, when you get these two studs on a winding canyon road, the Shelby is the car you want to be driving. That steering simply comes alive. The GT350R sports one of the best-feeling front ends I've had the privilege of experiencing. It's simply excellent. This Shelby's shifter shifts better, the engine feels better (who wouldn't take an 8,250-rpm redline over a 6,500-rpm limit?), the brake pedal feels better, and the car is simply sportier in every way. The R's just more fun to drive. Again, I'm not sure how Ford Performance did it, but I think there's a layer of pixie dust baked into the GT350R. I might call it a thing divine."
motortrend also said they would pick the ss 1le over the gt350r and are not the only ones

"That big lump of a supercharged V-8-while potent-puts way too much weight in exactly the wrong spot. For reference, the SS 1LE weighs in at 3,735 pounds. I will also go on record stating that I preferred the way the SS 1LE handled compared to the ZL1-and also to the GT350R."
 

newmoon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Threads
20
Messages
513
Reaction score
438
Location
NC
Vehicle(s)
04 Cobra, 10 SS, 12 392, 12 5.0
motortrend also said they would pick the ss 1le over the gt350r and are not the only ones

"That big lump of a supercharged V-8-while potent-puts way too much weight in exactly the wrong spot. For reference, the SS 1LE weighs in at 3,735 pounds. I will also go on record stating that I preferred the way the SS 1LE handled compared to the ZL1-and also to the GT350R."
They didn't say they prefered the SS, they preferred the handling right? Also according to MotorTrends very own testing the GT350 & 350R are faster than the SS 1LE right?
 

Adamone92

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Threads
29
Messages
1,352
Reaction score
914
Location
California
First Name
Adam
Vehicle(s)
2018 mustang gt
They didn't say they prefered the SS, they preferred the handling right? Also according to MotorTrends very own testing the GT350 & 350R are faster than the SS 1LE right?
they and others have said they would rather own the ss 1le. Also from what i've seen the ss 1le is right there with the 350/r on track times, especially worth noting the ~15-20k price difference and optional 10 speed auto for people that want that. Coming with a warranty that covers track use is a bonus as well.
 
Last edited:

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,444
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
Yeah, I know - it's a fun argument that will go on and on...my post was in response to the back and forth of Hack and Adam -- so they obviously care enough to discuss it here. If no one argued for one car or the other, then there would be no vs. section (or it would be extremely boring).

One of my main points about the ZL1 vs. GT350R Motortrend article was that the ZL1 is heavier, has narrower less sticky tires, no big CF wing, no CF wheels, yet still was able to outgrip and outbrake the R in some areas on the track. Physics says that shouldn't be possible if everything else were equal. So there must be an advantage somewhere that allows the ZL1 with those inherent disadvantages to achieve that.
A couple things about the ZL1 tires. Yes they are rated as narrower, but they are nearly the same in treadwear to the GT350R tires. So I'm not sure if we can definitively say they are less sticky or that there must be an advantage somewhere else.

The Goodyear Eagle Supercar F1 3 tires are UTQG 220. The Sport Cup 2 tires are UTQG rated 180. So they are pretty close. I believe you were thinking of the ZL1 1LE tires versus the regular ZL1 tires. The ZL1 1LE has the Supercar F1 3R tires that are 100 tread wear. Extremely sticky and extremely short life. The ZL1 1LE is very impractical in every way. IMO the GT350R and regular ZL1 have pretty impractical tires as well. I think the regular GT350 Super Sport tires with a treadwear rating of 300 were the right compromise for a street/track car that gets a lot of street miles.
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,444
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
To sum up most of the reviews ive seen on my internet

ZLE: better track car and better interior
350R: more daily driver friendly
I don't think I've heard people say the ZL1 1LE is a better track car. They usually say that the only people that should even consider buying one are those that are only going to use the car on the track. So it's a slightly different thing - maybe you are hearing what you want to hear rather than what they are saying.

And I haven't heard people say the interior is better than the Ford either. Usually they say visibility sucks and that it's like you are in a cave. And they say the interior is cheap.
 

Sponsored

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,444
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
they and others have said they would rather own the ss 1le. Also from what i've seen the ss 1le is right there with the 350/r on track times, especially worth noting the ~15-20k price difference and optional 10 speed auto for people that want that. Coming with a warranty that covers track use is a bonus as well.
The one person I was familiar with who really likes the Camaro chose the 4 cylinder 1LE Camaro. Randy Pobst. I assume he has the money for the SS 1LE. He just prefers the 4 cylinder version of the car.

I can't remember ever seeing any review from a major professional source saying they prefer the SS 1LE over the GT350 or the GT350R. That's just silly. The reviews I've seen of the Shelby generally people rave and say it's great or they say they want to buy one. I really haven't seen much of that with the Camaro.
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Threads
20
Messages
1,506
Reaction score
1,312
Location
Idaho
Vehicle(s)
2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
A couple things about the ZL1 tires. Yes they are rated as narrower, but they are nearly the same in treadwear to the GT350R tires. So I'm not sure if we can definitively say they are less sticky or that there must be an advantage somewhere else.

The Goodyear Eagle Supercar F1 3 tires are UTQG 220. The Sport Cup 2 tires are UTQG rated 180. So they are pretty close. I believe you were thinking of the ZL1 1LE tires versus the regular ZL1 tires. The ZL1 1LE has the Supercar F1 3R tires that are 100 tread wear. Extremely sticky and extremely short life. The ZL1 1LE is very impractical in every way. IMO the GT350R and regular ZL1 have pretty impractical tires as well. I think the regular GT350 Super Sport tires with a treadwear rating of 300 were the right compromise for a street/track car that gets a lot of street miles.
I was thinking of the Cup 2s on the R vs the Goodyear Supercar F1 that comes on the ZL1. I agree they are fairly close, but the Cup 2 is the standard bearer when it comes to high performance street tires.

As for ZLE vs ZL1: I agree and therefore went with the ZL1, which will be more than adequate for me and the twisty back road/mountain road driving that I do for fun. My ZL1 is being built this week (Week of Feb 1st). I like the PS4S on my Mustang so once the Goodyear Supercars wear out on the ZL1, if they don't last very long, I may replace with PS4S. We'll see.
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,444
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
I was thinking of the Cup 2s on the R vs the Goodyear Supercar F1 that comes on the ZL1. I agree they are fairly close, but the Cup 2 is the standard bearer when it comes to high performance street tires.

As for ZLE vs ZL1: I agree and therefore went with the ZL1, which will be more than adequate for me and the twisty back road/mountain road driving that I do for fun. My ZL1 is being built this week (Week of Feb 1st). I like the PS4S on my Mustang so once the Goodyear Supercars wear out on the ZL1, if they don't last very long, I may replace with PS4S. We'll see.
The Cup 2 may be the standard bearer, but that tire has similar treadwear to the ZL1 Supercar F1 3 tires. The PS4S should last a lot longer based on the treadwear rating. I think Michelin tires are a good choice, but Goodyears are fine as well. Based on the performance I see from Camaro instrumented tests, the Goodyears keep up pretty well.

I think you'll find the SC3 are superior performing and may even last longer.
I agree the Goodyear Supercar 3 tires with 220 treadwear rating should perform better than the PS4S with ~300 treadwear. I doubt the treadwear ratings are off by so much that the SC3s would last longer, though.
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Threads
20
Messages
1,506
Reaction score
1,312
Location
Idaho
Vehicle(s)
2021 Camaro ZL1 A10
I think you'll find the SC3 are superior performing and may even last longer.
Yeah, if the F1 Supercars on my ZL1 last as long or almost as long as PS4S I would stick w/ the Goodyears -- they definitely perform better than PS4S. They are about $100 cheaper each tire than the Michelins anyway.

Interestingly, the Chevy website and the build for my ZL1 indicates the ZL1 now comes with Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar G:2. Is that simply the next gen Supercar 3?
Sponsored

 
 




Top