"Mustang Mach E" Confirmed, Reservations Begin Immediately After Nov 17 Live-Streamed Reveal

[shogun32]

Too many powerful players within the oil industry would lose billions so that’s not happening.

I've been waiting for my residual check from the CEO of Exxon rewarding me for burning hydrocarbons and keeping his drillers, geologists, engineers, and refineries making so much money he doesn't know what to do with it all. When did it go in the mail?

Hydrocarbons are used widely because they are by far the most convenient and inexpensive way to generate energy for a bunch of use cases. Behind every unit of GDP is a unit of energy. All those tree-hugging solar panels would be up the creek without the massive hydrocarbon footprint used to make them.

Yes, I hope we massively expand our nuclear footprint be it breeders or Thorium, and start using our incredible coal resources to gassify/liquefy it.

Sponsored

 

[martinjlm]

.....
Maybe Ford should instead make a 7th Gen Mustang with a hybrid and/or full EV model in the Mustang line-up, while retaining an IC engine model. Then they could have an electrified Mustang and a separate full EV SUV line by simply the name ?Mach E". Not try to put the Mach E into the Mustsng line. Doubt a full electric "Corvette E-Quinix" would go over well in the Corvette community.

What makes you think they won’t? This actually all makes sense if you look at it from a portfolio management perspective.

Ford wants to expand the Mustang portfolio:
Evidence? They said it. So, if they intend to expand the Mustang portfolio that means adding something that does not exist today.

Options for Ford to expand Mustang portfolio:

• Add a sedan. Something to compete with M3 (not M4) and M5. Maybe even Panamera or S7
• Add a performance hybrid coupe
• Add a performance EV coupe
• Add an ICE performance CUV to compete with Macan, Trackhawk, AMG GLA45, X3M
• Add a performance EV CUV

Selecting amongst the options
Sedans are a dying breed, luxury, performance, or otherwise. A few will be able to maintain a decent amount of volume, but there is little or no incentive to bring in a new one.

Performance hybrid coupe makes sense and is probably coming. Evidence? Ford has stated they will produce one. But in the short term, there is very little space in the portfolio for that. EBHP—>GT—>Bullitt—
>GT350–>GT500. Where does it fit? Trying to shoehorn it between any of these makes little sense until one of them <cough> Bullitt <cough> goes away. You’d be trying to sell a high cost / low margin vehicle side-by-side with an existing moderate cost / decent profit vehicle. That would be intentionally losing money.

A performance EV coupe makes sense long term, but in the short term, would Ford intentionally set up customers to compare between a just updated $65k GT350, a $75 - 100k GT500, and a [pick a number over $80k] performance EV coupe? No. If (when) a performance EV coupe appears, it will be after GT350 / GT500 have run their course. Food for thought....Ford has indicated that there may be a Shelby Mustang EV at some point. What they did not say was that the potential Shelby would definitely be a CUV. It could be a coupe. That appears after the current GT350 / GT500 are retired.

A performance EV CUV is actually the safe play for now. It sits in what we in the portfolio planning profession call “white space”. Meaning, if you draw up all the various types of vehicles currently available on a sheet of paper based on expected customer wants and needs, the part of the paper that has little or no entrants pencilled in is white space. Back when everybody had a cell phone and a laptop, Apple dropped the iPad into the white space.

Fast forward to 2030. Ford’s “Mustang portfolio” could look like this:

• EcoBoost
• 5.0L GT
• 5.0L Hybrid Mach I (yeah, I said it)
• Mach E CUV
• Mach E GT CUV
• Shelby GT500 EV Coupe

That’s my crystal ball.

 

[BuckeyeBOSS]

What makes you think they won’t? This actually all makes sense if you look at it from a portfolio management perspective.

Ford wants to expand the Mustang portfolio:
Evidence? They said it. So, if they intend to expand the Mustang portfolio that means adding something that does not exist today.

Options for Ford to expand Mustang portfolio:

• Add a sedan. Something to compete with M3 (not M4) and M5. Maybe even Panamera or S7
• Add a performance hybrid coupe
• Add a performance EV coupe
• Add an ICE performance CUV to compete with Macan, Trackhawk, AMG GLA45, X3M
• Add a performance EV CUV

Selecting amongst the options
Sedans are a dying breed, luxury, performance, or otherwise. A few will be able to maintain a decent amount of volume, but there is little or no incentive to bring in a new one.

Performance hybrid coupe makes sense and is probably coming. Evidence? Ford has stated they will produce one. But in the short term, there is very little space in the portfolio for that. EBHP—>GT—>Bullitt—
>GT350–>GT500. Where does it fit? Trying to shoehorn it between any of these makes little sense until one of them <cough> Bullitt <cough> goes away. You’d be trying to sell a high cost / low margin vehicle side-by-side with an existing moderate cost / decent profit vehicle. That would be intentionally losing money.

A performance EV coupe makes sense long term, but in the short term, would Ford intentionally set up customers to compare between a just updated $65k GT350, a $75 - 100k GT500, and a [pick a number over $80k] performance EV coupe? No. If (when) a performance EV coupe appears, it will be after GT350 / GT500 have run their course. Food for thought....Ford has indicated that there may be a Shelby Mustang EV at some point. What they did not say was that the potential Shelby would definitely be a CUV. It could be a coupe. That appears after the current GT350 / GT500 are retired.

A performance EV CUV is actually the safe play for now. It sits in what we in the portfolio planning profession call “white space”. Meaning, if you draw up all the various types of vehicles currently available on a sheet of paper based on expected customer wants and needs, the part of the paper that has little or no entrants pencilled in is white space. Back when everybody had a cell phone and a laptop, Apple dropped the iPad into the white space.

Fast forward to 2030. Ford’s “Mustang portfolio” could look like this:

• EcoBoost
• 5.0L GT
• 5.0L Hybrid Mach I (yeah, I said it)
• Mach E CUV
• Mach E GT CUV
• Shelby GT500 EV Coupe

That’s my crystal ball.

Jim, I'm curious what your research may indicate about Millennial car buying habits, both current and future? If you don't mind sharing, as I imagine it's a big industry topic. I have seen articles that state that the 3 most Millennial owned models are the Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, and Honda Civic, ironically, all sedans. Do you think Millennials would rather have CUV's as a whole, but sedans are just the cheap used cars at the moment and they buy them b/c of price? Will Millennials be able to afford and can they be convinced to spend $40k+ on brand new cars (especially "American" cars) in the near future, as it seems their generation is buried in school debt and more frugal with certain purchases (like cars)? Curious of your insights. Thanks.

 

[martinjlm]

Jim, I'm curious what your research may indicate about Millennial car buying habits, both current and future? If you don't mind sharing, as I imagine it's a big industry topic. I have seen articles that state that the 3 most Millennial owned models are the Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, and Honda Civic, ironically, all sedans. Do you think Millennials want would rather have CUV's as a whole, but sedans are just the cheap used cars at the moment and they buy them b/c of price? Will Millennials be able to afford and can they be convinced to spend $40k+ on brand new cars (especially "American" cars) in the near future, as it seems their generation is buried in school debt and more frugal with certain purchases (like cars)? Curious of your insights. Thanks.

My insight into customer behavior would not be worth much. In my last 10 years at GM, my Industry & Competitor Intel group reported to the same Product Portfolio Planning Director that the Consumer & Market Research group reported to. We were able to exchange information and provide each other supporting information, but we pretty much stayed in our lanes. My team was product and competitor company focused, CMR was consumer focused and we both provided key detail to vehicle teams.

Where I work now I’m focused on product and companies, much like I was at GM. There are other parts of the company that do consumer research, but I am further removed from them than I was at GM. So all I’m really left with are my opinions, with not much to back them up.

 

[shogun32]

A performance EV coupe makes sense long term, but in the short term, would Ford intentionally set up customers to compare between a just updated $65k GT350, a $75 - 100k GT500, and a [pick a number over $80k] performance EV coupe? No. If (when) a performance EV coupe appears, it will be after GT350 / GT500 have run their course.

Why?

EB/GT are the same damn car with just different engine. The EV version would be no different, rip out the gas tank and put battery packs in their place and shove an electric motor where the ICE went and you're done. (yes, I'm simplifying slightly)
Ditto the Shelby's it's the same damn car as the EB/GT with a change in driveline and suspension bits.

Cost for the EV Mustang should be more than possible at low/mid 40's just like the Mach-E has been pitched at. That the CUV's performance stinks is likely gated by Ford's (or their supplier) inexperience with electric drive and current component deficiencies.

 

[shogun32]

I have seen articles that state that the 3 most Millennial owned models are the Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, and Honda Civic, ironically, all sedans.

because they are dirt cheap by virtue of them lasting forever and lots made.

 

[martinjlm]

Why?

EB/GT are the same damn car with just different engine. The EV version would be no different, rip out the gas tank and put battery packs in their place and shove an electric motor where the ICE went and you're done. (yes, I'm simplifying slightly)
Ditto the Shelby's it's the same damn car as the EB/GT with a change in driveline and suspension bits.

Cost for the EV Mustang should be more than possible at low/mid 40's just like the Mach-E has been pitched at. That the CUV's performance stinks is likely gated by Ford's (or their supplier) inexperience with electric drive and current component deficiencies.

The “why” is because they have not yet developed the high performance EV coupe and have no pressure to rush them to market while the GT350 and GT500 are fresh. Let those cars make money while they incrementally replace Mustang coupes with varying levels of electrification. Yes, the EB and GT are basically the same car with different engines. And both have distinct placement in the market and sell well in those markets. Ford cannot afford to replace either one anytime soon. And let’s face it, Shelby’s are a lot more than “the same damn car as the EB/GT” or they would not command the prices they command. Ford has to protect those model level price point differences as they replace ICE models with any degree of electrification.

 

[regular6g]

What's your number in line? Which model did you reserve?

6514 is reservation and we went First Ed. Red. My 18 GT isn't being replaced, so perfect 'stable'.

 

[regular6g]

The “why” is because they have not yet developed the high performance EV coupe and have no pressure to rush them to market while the GT350 and GT500 are fresh. Let those cars make money while they incrementally replace Mustang coupes with varying levels of electrification. Yes, the EB and GT are basically the same car with different engines. And both have distinct placement in the market and sell well in those markets. Ford cannot afford to replace either one anytime soon. And let’s face it, Shelby’s are a lot more than “the same damn car as the EB/GT” or they would not command the prices they command. Ford has to protect those model level price point differences as they replace ICE models with any degree of electrification.

Ummm GT and Ecoboost are not the same! Seriously love the EB, but GT, GT350, GT350R, GT500 owners will tell you they are not the same. Each have their respective niches. I would be happy with a stable of all varients for sure. Unfortunately, I can only have my GT and my wife needs a Mach E. (Shh).

 

[TomcatDriver]

The “why” is because they have not yet developed the high performance EV coupe and have no pressure to rush them to market while the GT350 and GT500 are fresh. Let those cars make money while they incrementally replace Mustang coupes with varying levels of electrification. Yes, the EB and GT are basically the same car with different engines. And both have distinct placement in the market and sell well in those markets. Ford cannot afford to replace either one anytime soon. And let’s face it, Shelby’s are a lot more than “the same damn car as the EB/GT” or they would not command the prices they command. Ford has to protect those model level price point differences as they replace ICE models with any degree of electrification.

Waiting to innovate while resting on your laurels and making money off what you already have is a good way to let your rivals eat your lunch. Let's face it, pretty much everybody is playing catch-up with Tesla. The way to catch up is to stop playing catch-up and start playing get-ahead. I've really been waiting for one of the major car makers to out-Tesla Tesla. I want an EV made by a major auto-maker with Tesla-like range and a below Tesla price. From what I have read Tesla's "buildability" lags well behind industry standards. Ford, or GM or Audi group should be able to make one better and cheaper than Tesla. I feel like we are still in early adopter stage and that model 3 that looks cool right now is going to be like spending $4000 on a 55" TV in 2010. OK, maybe not as bad as TVs, but you get the idea.

And for reference, I still don't like the "Mustang" Mach E name. Should have gone with the "E" naming convention for Ford SUVs (Explorer, Escape, Expedition, etc).

 

[regular6g]

Waiting to innovate while resting on your laurels and making money off what you already have is a good way to let your rivals eat your lunch. Let's face it, pretty much everybody is playing catch-up with Tesla. The way to catch up is to stop playing catch-up and start playing get-ahead. I've really been waiting for one of the major car makers to out-Tesla Tesla. I want an EV made by a major auto-maker with Tesla-like range and a below Tesla price. From what I have read Tesla's "buildability" lags well behind industry standards. Ford, or GM or Audi group should be able to make one better and cheaper than Tesla. I feel like we are still in early adopter stage and that model 3 that looks cool right now is going to be like spending $4000 on a 55" TV in 2010. OK, maybe not as bad as TVs, but you get the idea.

And for reference, I still don't like the "Mustang" Mach E name. Should have gone with the "E" naming convention for Ford SUVs (Explorer, Escape, Expedition, etc).

E for Ecoboost or Elenore?

 

[martinjlm]

The “why” is because they have not yet developed the high performance EV coupe and have no pressure to rush them to market while the GT350 and GT500 are fresh. Let those cars make money while they incrementally replace Mustang coupes with varying levels of electrification. Yes, the EB and GT are basically the same car with different engines. And both have distinct placement in the market and sell well in those markets. Ford cannot afford to replace either one anytime soon. And let’s face it, Shelby’s are a lot more than “the same damn car as the EB/GT” or they would not command the prices they command. Ford has to protect those model level price point differences as they replace ICE models with any degree of electrification.

Ummm GT and Ecoboost are not the same! Seriously love the EB, but GT, GT350, GT350R, GT500 owners will tell you they are not the same. Each have their respective niches. I would be happy with a stable of all varients for sure. Unfortunately, I can only have my GT and my wife needs a Mach E. (Shh).

EB and GT are same chassis, same interior, same basic mechanical systems except for things that change due to the added mass and power of the 5.0L. Things like brakes, cooling systems, and other items that are not visible to the casual observer. I really didn’t think I’d have to run down a Bill of Material of differences between the two, but if that’s the measure, then ok they are different. From a block away in traffic, though, they’re the same car. GT350 and GT500? Nope. Different, and I think I actually said that.

 

[obspsd]

Oh Mustang, what has Ford done to you.

 

[BuckeyeBOSS]

Oh Mustang, what has Ford done to you.

The next gen Mustang coupe will be called the Mustang Gelding.

 

[BuckeyeBOSS]

Gelding by BuckeyeBOSS, on Flickr

Sponsored