MT82 - 1. Bucking at low speeds, clunking. 2. Stern Lawsuit

[MD18EcoStang]

It's not about being perfect. It's about acknowledging it's not a machines fault especially when the part in question is completely controlled by the operator. If you can't keep it from bucking after a few days it's just not for you. It's really that simple.

It's not that I thought mine was undrivable, just that the spring change made it better. To each their own. Either way, the manual was what I wanted. Had I not changed the spring, I probably wouldn't be on here complaining about the transmission.

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[shogun32]

you do not want to slip the clutch.

hogwash. teh clutch is a SLIPPING device. That is it's purpose.

That said, You don't want to maintain huge differences in speed between engine and transmission - ie 5000 RPM on a stopped vehicle - unless you're wanting to smell the clutch disks as they get hot.

Properly executed the clutch will take around 1 second from initial bite to fully engaged. Over 2 seconds and you're dragging it out a bit but no biggie. If you're over 3 seconds you're probably starting from way over 3000 RPM.

If you are coordinating gas and clutch properly your RPM shouldn't fluctuate by more than 100rpm to either side of your chosen set point. Anyone can "master" the technique in 1hr with an empty parking lot.

 

[Tucker80]

It's not that I thought mine was undrivable, just that the spring change made it better. To each their own. Either way, the manual was what I wanted. Had I not changed the spring, I probably wouldn't be on here complaining about the transmission.

That comment was definitely not directed at you. You're one of the few that approached this with the right attitude. "Is it me? What can I do to be or make it better? etc.".

However, it was directed right at the people that are claiming this is an inherent design or defect and not their technique. For the few that can't feel the clutch engage or the friction zone I would encourage them to continue to practice. But at some point they need to look inward and realize that hundreds of thousands of people are driving this car and it's as smooth and easy as it gets!

 

[Tucker80]

When it bucks, you can feather the clutch and add some throttle. Doing this at the same time, as the RPM increases bring the clutch back out.

In other words down on the gas up on the clutch, you do not want to slip the clutch.

The problem is all about the power-to-weight ratio to move the car. You'll need more gas peddle when the clutch is fully engaged.

The Steeda spring gives a much better feel for that.


power-to-weight ratio to move the car. EXACTLY V
There is no bucking at high RPMs, only coming off a stop or driving very slow.

I have zero issues coming off a stop or driving slowly. If its bucking it's driver problem not the car.

 

[Konamoth]

Glad to see sense returning.

I will argue that changing the clutch spring DOES help—not the car, but the driver. It can make the engagement point easier to feel out, I felt it came on way too fast with the OEM spring. I do like the idea posed by @boB (you just got all kinds of cool stuff stashed up your sleeves, don't you? ) of using the 11-14 / 95lb spring. I might just snag one of those to see hoe it feels—OEM to Steeda's is night and day. That should lie somewhere comfortably in the middle.

 

[Rapid Red]

I have zero issues coming off a stop or driving slowly. If its bucking it's driver problem not the car.

Not sure what you think I posted, I mention the Steeda spring for one reason only. The OEM does not have a linear spring resistance, throughout the cycle.

 

[plresultsman]

(cross-post from Mach 1, I try not to do that often)
Steeda has a 95 lb/in spring (555-7023) that they sell for 2011-2014 Mustangs, a reviewer (on CJ Pony Parts) noted the 35 lb/in spring made the clutch too stiff but the 95 spring fits a 2018 and felt just right.
The spring is still about 2x the price of the one from McMaster (9657K573), it's up to you if you are ok with that to support the vendors.

I must not understand spring ratings. The lower number, 35, is stiffer than the higher number 95?

 

[plresultsman]

Oh FFS, here we go with the oh-so-brave-and-macho keyboard warrior he-men - again. Multiple respected aftermarket makers wouldn't make an alternative to the OEM spring if it weren't something to improve. Are seats adjustable? Do mirrors move? Ok then, Mr. Macho, maybe an alternative to the OEM spring isn't something to get yourself in a flexing-dick-measuring tizzy about. Go find a pet to kick.

 

[IPOGT]

That comment was definitely not directed at you. You're one of the few that approached this with the right attitude. "Is it me? What can I do to be or make it better? etc.".

However, it was directed right at the people that are claiming this is an inherent design or defect and not their technique. For the few that can't feel the clutch engage or the friction zone I would encourage them to continue to practice. But at some point they need to look inward and realize that hundreds of thousands of people are driving this car and it's as smooth and easy as it gets!

For me, it took a few days of 20 min drives to learn the clutch, and I’ll be the first to admit, I stalled out last week mostly because I didn’t give enough thought to it. Here’s my take. When you have a NEW car, the computer is still learning, the break in period makes the car do
weird things. With a new car everything is really tight and new and that’s great! But I’m going to say that when you add that all up,
with someone such as myself who hasn’t driven a manual in 30 years, yes it’s challenging in the beginning. It’s not my well broken in 1983 Mazda RX-7 kind of manual AT ALL.
I’m pretty good now with the Mach stock spring and all. I do remember though breaking into a cold sweat approaching speed bumps….those bumps were a bitch. I say this so those feeling awkward with it know to hang in there.

 

[Rapid Red]

hogwash. teh clutch is a SLIPPING device. That is it's purpose.

That said, You don't want to maintain huge differences in speed between engine and transmission - ie 5000 RPM on a stopped vehicle - unless you're wanting to smell the clutch disks as they get hot.

Properly executed the clutch will take around 1 second from initial bite to fully engaged. Over 2 seconds and you're dragging it out a bit but no biggie. If you're over 3 seconds you're probably starting from way over 3000 RPM.

If you are coordinating gas and clutch properly your RPM shouldn't fluctuate by more than 100rpm to either side of your chosen set point. Anyone can "master" the technique in 1hr with an empty parking lot.

"hogwash. teh clutch is a SLIPPING device" < No SHIT Sherlock I used the term to explain the act of feathering it once the car is bucking.

It bucks you have 2 options, app power to drive out of it, most likely will get worst, or stall.

Ease up (add some peddle) to the clutch (slip) and stop the buck.

That's the basics, adding the 2 options together cures the buck. And the driver can drive out of the buck.

Hope that did not go over your head

To get to the meat of it for you & tucker80. I roll out from a dead-stop power & clutch synchronized, fat or on a hill..


Cheers

 

[boB]

Glad to see sense returning.

I will argue that changing the clutch spring DOES help—not the car, but the driver. It can make the engagement point easier to feel out, I felt it came on way too fast with the OEM spring. I do like the idea posed by @boB (you just got all kinds of cool stuff stashed up your sleeves, don't you? ) of using the 11-14 / 95lb spring. I might just snag one of those to see hoe it feels—OEM to Steeda's is night and day. That should lie somewhere comfortably in the middle.

I have to give credit to Mikepol2 on the Mach 1 forum for the 95 lb/in spring idea (which I plan to install), I just looked further and found the spring on the Steeda website.

 

[IPOGT]

I have to give credit to Mikepol2 on the Mach 1 forum for the 95 lb/in spring idea (which I plan to install), I just looked further and found the spring on the Steeda website.

Mike is a trailblazer. No doubt about it.

 

[Nightmonkey]

Trying to explain away the lack of skill with ... "spring strength" is comical.

If the actuation force of the clutch is OK for you, then you have no reason to complain.
For me, it felt like the clutch of my wife's 100 hp compact car.
You can get used to it, but what's the point of doing that if you can adjust the actuation force to your needs?
If you spent more time on the leg press, you may find that you feel the same way I do.

 

[NightmareMoon]

And the clunking - same?

A clunk shifting into 1st from neutral is normal behavior for the MT82 and not a problem. When exactly does it clunk?

 

[NightmareMoon]

I must not understand spring ratings. The lower number, 35, is stiffer than the higher number 95?

In this case there are two springs in question. The clutch pedal itself pushing up (via hydraulic pressure from the spring inside the slave cylinder inside the clutch) and these assist springs in the cabin pedal area pushing down against it.

So the cluch is stiffest with the assist spring removed entirely. Feel is good, but you need an assist spring in there to at least ensure the clutch is at the correct height when your foot is off it (or your cruise control and things like that which detect if you're pressing the clutch might not work)

So clutch pressure minus 95 is a softer pedal (more assist pressure) and 35 is heavier (less assist pressure). The stock spring is pretty heavy, which makes the clutch pretty light, but general concensus is its harder to feel what the clutch is doing with the heavy stock assist spring in there.

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