MT-82 Question 2019+

[bschoon55]

A little off topic.... but still relevant. So I normally drive my car pretty easy... but sometimes I get after it a bit like in the attached video.


I know there’s no scientific way to go about this... but how much can the MT-82 take? Is this being too rough in the attached video?

 

[Elp_jc]

I wouldn't shift any quicker than that; it'd be abuse IMO. But more importantly than the overall shifting speed, is how hard you hit the end of the gates. In other words, you want your shifting speed shaped like a second half of a bell curve, not banging against a gate. That's what can break the shift forks. On the 2019+ trannies they were beefed up, so they should take more abuse than previous years. But I'd still not push my luck with these things. They don't like being rushed, but your tranny didn't show any signs of complaining. Let's see what other folks say .

 

[WD Pro]

To be honest, I don’t think your shifts are overly quick or aggressive, you don’t seem to be forcing it into gear or making it do things it’s not happy to do (which is good) - if the MT82 can’t handle that type of treatment on the odd occasion I will be disappointed ...

WD

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

A little off topic.... but still relevant. So I normally drive my car pretty easy... but sometimes I get after it a bit like in the attached video.


I know there’s no scientific way to go about this... but how much can the MT-82 take? Is this being too rough in the attached video?

I have no idea, but I sure hope what's in that video is "nothing, nothing at all" compared to what it's intended to take, otherwise I'll be expecting my MT-82 to blow up any day now.

Does sound like clutch was engaged a bit too soon on the first gear change though, as you can hear the grinding noises.

 

[16COEBM]

The car will still hold the RPM for the next gear during normal driving even if the rev-match feature is turned off. Mostly because of the rev hang feature written into the ECU to make up-shifting smoother. Its dead on accurate because the 19 and up transmission has a gear selection sensor on it that tells the computer which gear is about to be selected.

 

[WD Pro]

I’ve got a 2020 gt and haven’t once noticed the rev hang that’s being discussed.

The rev match on downshift works really well and I like that.

Not that I plan on changing my driving style (I think that’s probably hard wired now), but what must I do to experience this feature or see if mine does it ?

WD

 

[Vlad Soare]

There's not much to experience. If you take your foot off the throttle and depress the clutch pedal fully, the revs will take a bit of time to drop. Without the rev hang they will drop to idle immediately.

 

[WD Pro]

Only time I do that scenario is the final stop at the lights. Once second gear has rolled down to circa 1000 rpm I will dip the clutch and stop fully. I guess it wouldn’t really display itself under those conditions anyway ?

I will try your suggestion, but it’s going to seem a little alien to me to do something like that

WD

 

[Elp_jc]

Its dead on accurate because the 19 and up transmission has a gear selection sensor on it that tells the computer which gear is about to be selected.

It's not that sophisticated. Ha ha. The computer doesn't know which gear you or anybody else will select. There's actually a sensor on each gate/gear, so whichever gear you choose, the computer instantly calculates the rpm the engine needs to be at, and either blips the throttle to match the revs for the selected gear (for downshifts), or holds the revs where the selected gear needs to be (upshifts).

 

[16COEBM]

LOL you just explained how the transmission and computer communicate to figure out what is going to happen. As you said, the sensor is at the gate, which is not when the gear is engaged. Now, as stated in the Ford video I posted earlier, the ACTIVE REV-MATCH feature, the one that Ford advertises, the one that you have to turn on in the Track Apps menu, is ONLY INTENDED FOR DOWN-SHIFTING. The video clearly explains it's use and why it is there. The rev-match does not need to be activated for this "up-shift rev match" you keep referencing. Just for shits and gigs, I tried it last night, in both modes. The only thing that changes when you turn rev match ON is a throttle blip on down-shift. During normal acceleration it will still keep rpms where they need to be for the up-shift. It will even lower the RPM even more if you skip a gear (go from 2nd to 4th).

If you have not noticed this feature on your Mustang, its because you're not supposed to. Most modern manual transmission cars employ a strategy similar to this, although most not as accurate. The ECU absolutely does not know what you are going to do, hence why they have adaptive and predictive technology. This entire thread reminds me of 2011 when I had a brand new Lancer Evo 9. Those cars employed a neutral rev limiter at 5k rpms. People thought it was a factory 2-step/launch control. In fact, it was there to protect the drivetrain against asshats like me that held the engine wide open and dumped the clutch. Tuners were able to tweak the neutral rev limiter to whatever they wanted (mine was at 7k, limiter at 8500). Point being, that even though it was designed for a specific use, owners took advantage in ways the manufacturer didnt intend. There is no "up-shift rev match" but because the addition of a sensor for the active downshift, Ford was able to further enhance the operation of its up-shift rpm assist. Just like you probably didn't notice that if you slowly let the clutch out when the RPM starts to fall, suddenly the RPMs will jump up to about 1000. Its there to keep the engine from stalling. In the words of Yolodouchebag, because alot of you mother fuckers cant drive.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

LOL you just explained how the transmission and computer communicate to figure out what is going to happen. As you said, the sensor is at the gate, which is not when the gear is engaged. Now, as stated in the Ford video I posted earlier, the ACTIVE REV-MATCH feature, the one that Ford advertises, the one that you have to turn on in the Track Apps menu, is ONLY INTENDED FOR DOWN-SHIFTING. The video clearly explains it's use and why it is there. The rev-match does not need to be activated for this "up-shift rev match" you keep referencing. Just for shits and gigs, I tried it last night, in both modes. The only thing that changes when you turn rev match ON is a throttle blip on down-shift. During normal acceleration it will still keep rpms where they need to be for the up-shift. It will even lower the RPM even more if you skip a gear (go from 2nd to 4th).

That this is correct is quite easy to see by performing a small experiment:

Putter along at e.g. 3,000 rpm in second gear. Then shift to third and look at what happens to the rpm. Revert back to second gear at 3,000 rpm again, then shift to fourth gear and look at what happens to the rpm. Any difference? No, the RPM hangs for what is easily seen to be approximately the same amount of time (try fifth or sixth gear if not immediately convinced). The rev-matching is not done for upshifts.

Edit: after re-reading, I see what you said is not actually what I said. ;-) I don't see any difference going from second to fourth and it's only smooth if I do it slowly. As in, "normal" and not hurrying.


I think I read that it was possible to reduce or remove the artifical rev hang via Forscan, and once I get some time and a laptop to use with Forscan, if possible, I'm going to try and see if I prefer that. The rev-hang makes shifting smooth if I'm shifting slow and relaxed, but if I'm slightly going for it, the revs need to drop much faster than they do to avoid the speed-up jerk when the higher gear engages before the rpm has dropped sufficiently.

I wonder if a later version of the rev-match feature will be made to work on upshifts too, or whether there are some not so obvious problems that make that more complicated than for dowshifts.

 

[Elp_jc]

the RPM hangs for what is easily seen to be approximately the same amount of time

Yes, they always hang for the same amount of time, which is about 2 seconds; I already stated that. BUT at least my car hangs at different rpm levels, depending on the gear you choose, and that makes the 2-sec rev hang an upshift rev-match, no matter what the hell you want to call it, because it changes the rpm at which it hangs, depending on gear.

Oh, and rev-match it's not on the track apps, at least on my car, so that guy must be confusing it with something else. Or smoking something he shouldn't. Ha ha. At any rate, just drive the damn car and watch the tach, and it'd be pretty obvious the revs match whichever gear you're shifting to, up or down. This is on a 2019 Bullitt, but should be exactly the same as any other MT-82 2019. Tired of this crap, so bowing out, and ignoring this thread.

 

[Lightning Struck]

The "upshift" rev hang is there on my 18.. It's pretty easy to notice, just up shift abnormally slow and watch the tach.. It'll drop down to the specific RPM for the upshift and hold.

 

[K4fxd]

I've driven manual cars and trucks since around 1980. Started with 1970 440 Roadrunner. Last one was a 2002 F150. All of the newer drive by wire stick shift cars are almost impossible for me to drive smoothly due to the rev hang. I expect the RPM to drop instantly when I remove my foot from the throttle. Not hang. I absolutely hate it.

The first time I ran into this was on a Toyota pick-up, back in the 90's

I could see how rev-matching on a downshift could come in handy on a road course, but even then I'm used to blipping the throttle.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

I've driven manual cars and trucks since around 1980. Started with 1970 440 Roadrunner. Last one was a 2002 F150. All of the newer drive by wire stick shift cars are almost impossible for me to drive smoothly due to the rev hang. I expect the RPM to drop instantly when I remove my foot from the throttle. Not hang. I absolutely hate it.

The first time I ran into this was on a Toyota pick-up, back in the 90's

I could see how rev-matching on a downshift could come in handy on a road course, but even then I'm used to blipping the throttle.

You just gotta get used to taking a small break every time you disengage the clutch and plan to shift. Take a second or two to think about your place in the universe, what you'll have for breakfast tomorrow, or when's a good time to wash the car again. Why do we always have to hurry so much in society now? Weren't things better before, when we could just stop for a while and watch the cows grassing out on the fields?

Just think about it for a second or two, then gently change gears and engage the clutch like you have all the time in the world, and your gear change will be smoooth.