Mixing tires: PS4S front, SC2 rear?

[shogun32]

I don't really believe that data - it's either a typo or specific to the Mercedes design tire as indicated in the table he referenced. Do you think the tread width on your front tires are only 9.8"? I'd try to find another source or confirm with Michelin.

Tirerack measures ALL their tires using a standard methodology. While I won't say typos don't happen, I've seen this pattern many, many times.

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[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Tirerack measures ALL their tires using a standard methodology. While I won't say typos don't happen, I've seen this pattern many, many times.

I agree Tirerack has awesome data and I've looked at it many times. But I'm guessing something fishy is going on with this tread width number. I'd still try to confirm with another source before I spent $1,600 replacing everything due to one set of data.

 

[br_an]

the width number is HIGHLY misleading. the 305/30 PS4S has 11.1 or 11.5" tread. The 295/35 has 9.8". 295/30 is 11". You HAVE TO consult tirerack's specifications tables so you have actual measured data.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S&tab=Sizes

But you are correct, nobody can discern the difference during street use.

You make a really good point, there's more to that width measurement to consider. I had consulted Michelin's site for the widths but I just meant "ball park".
Michelin says section width is 11.90" on 10.50" wheel for 295/35 (PS4S) and 12.30" on 11" wheel (PSS) and that certainly includes more than just the contact patch.

But out of curiosity I took quick and dirty measurements since I have both of these tires sitting in my garage (and winter tires on the car). Here's a couple of pics - not the most precise measurement but it (contact patch) looked closer to 10.5" to my eye, (don't let the forced perspective of the camera fool ya, it's an odd angle since I had to hold the camera back some to fit it all)

295/35 PS4S, 11" wheel

and here's a 305/35 PSS (not mounted btw, so take with a big grain of salt, not apples to apples here).

They look pretty dang close to me

 

[Mr. Maboomba]

That's awesome you have both tires on hand @br_an. It's hard to tell what they measure due to the perspective. Would you mind sharing the tread width measurements for each as best you can figure them in person? If the 295/35 PS4S is closer to the 305/35 PSS than Tire Rack indicates, I may go that route and put the SC2 on track wheels.

Tire Rack says the 295/35 PS4S has a section width (sidewall to sidewall excluding lettering) of 11.9" and tread width of 9.8" on a 11" wheel. They say the 305/35 PSS has a section width of 12.3" and tread width of 10.7" on a 11" wheel. (It's the 305/30 PS4S that has the tread width of 11.5".)

 

[matthewr87]

So is it a bad idea to run brand new SC2s on the front while running ~40% life SC2s on the back? This was going to be my plan for the first couple of track events of the season. My old fronts are toast but the rears are still good for a few more sessions.

 

[br_an]

That's awesome you have both tires on hand @br_an. It's hard to tell what they measure due to the perspective. Would you mind sharing the tread width measurements for each as best you can figure them in person? If the 295/35 PS4S is closer to the 305/35 PSS than Tire Rack indicates, I may go that route and put the SC2 on track wheels.

Tire Rack says the 295/35 PS4S has a section width (sidewall to sidewall excluding lettering) of 11.9" and tread width of 9.8" on a 11" wheel. They say the 305/35 PSS has a section width of 12.3" and tread width of 10.7" on a 11" wheel. (It's the 305/30 PS4S that has the tread width of 11.5".)

Not sure if this is s better or worse for accuracy, but I grabbed a vinyl tape measure. I measured from the start of the tread pattern to the end of the pattern on the other side. Looks like the unmounted 305 PSS was ~11.5" and the mounted 295 PS4S was ~10.75".

 

[svttim]

So is it a bad idea to run brand new SC2s on the front while running ~40% life SC2s on the back? This was going to be my plan for the first couple of track events of the season. My old fronts are toast but the rears are still good for a few more sessions.

I did exactly that. Still lightning fast

 

[Mr. Maboomba]

OK, so, final answer is that I ordered a pair of 305/35ZR19 Pilot Super Sports for my rear axle. ($337 each from Discount Tire after 10% military discount.) I will use the Sport Cup 2s on track wheels. I'm doing this instead of using the SC2s on the street because I went back to my original goal, which was to improve wet traction and predictability versus the Nitto NT555G2s I have now.

I didn't go with 295/35 square PS4S because I found another post where people considered doing that and the 295 PS4S was really stretched on an 11" wide wheel: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...mance-track-handling-pack.158762/post-3255650

The next time I need to replace the tires I'll put 305/30 PS4S all around.

It sucks that Michelin doesn't make the PS4S in 305/35 for our cars.

 

[br_an]

I didn't go with 295/35 square PS4S because I found another post where people considered doing that and the 295 PS4S was really stretched on an 11" wide wheel...

I might have a different definition for "really stretched" because that doesn't look streched to me

These pics are both 295/35r19 on 11" GT350 wheels which is pretty much near the middle of Michelin's recommended min/max wheel width.

Alpine PA4

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This is "really stretched" in my book

Either way, glad to got your choice nailed down. I agree, I wish Michelin had made the PS4S in 305/35 since it was supposedly the successor to the PSS.

 

[Hack]

PS4S and Supercar 3Rs are a different class of tire. The 3R are more comparable to Cup 2R tires. They (the SC3R) are OEM on the ZL1 1LE and are extremely tacky when heated with a short tread life rating, and terrible when cold with an extremely stiff sidewall. Great track tires, but not the best street tire, and I've heard ZL1 1LE owners complain about them in the wet on Camaro6.

A more comparable tire to the PS4S is the Goodyear Eagle Supercar 3, although they have better dry lateral grip than the PS4S. They come on the SS 1LE and ZL1, and are good for some serious grip while canyon carving. I'm not sure if they come in 305/35/19, you'd have to check the Goodyear website.

Another option - why not go 295/35/19 on the rear? Won't be much narrower than 305/35, and you can get the PS4S to match your fronts. Otherwise, you'd be spending a lot of extra money for 1/2" extra width in the rear replacing all the tires when you didn't need to.

The Cup 2R tires (180 tread wear) are more comparable to Supercar 3s (220 tread wear). The Supercar 3Rs are almost 2x softer at 100 tread wear.

PS4S and PSS are closer to 300 tread wear. They are a lot less sticky and soft than the Supercar 3s. They are a lot more sensible for a street driven car but still ok for track use. They might not produce the magazine numbers that the Supercar 3s will, but they should last quite a bit longer.

 

[tosha]

In case anyone is interested in Tire trst between PS4S, SC3, CUP 2, SC3R and R888R:
Very informative.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

The Cup 2R tires (180 tread wear) are more comparable to Supercar 3s (220 tread wear). The Supercar 3Rs are almost 2x softer at 100 tread wear.

PS4S and PSS are closer to 300 tread wear. They are a lot less sticky and soft than the Supercar 3s. They are a lot more sensible for a street driven car but still ok for track use. They might not produce the magazine numbers that the Supercar 3s will, but they should last quite a bit longer.

Cup 2R have a TW rating of 140. SC3R are 100 which you indicated correctly. So, as I said, Cup 2R and SC3R are more comparable to each other than what the OP was comparing in one of the posts (PS4S to SC3R).

The SC3s (TW 220) about split the difference between PS4S and Cup 2 (180).

And yes, the PS4S will last longer than SC3, but they are quite a bit more expensive than the SC3, so someone can go with the SC3 and change them more frequently and still come out ahead, $ wise, if that was a consideration for someone.

 

[Mr. Maboomba]

And yes, the PS4S will last longer than SC3, but they are quite a bit more expensive than the SC3, so someone can go with the SC3 and change them more frequently and still come out ahead, $ wise, if that was a consideration for someone.

I was interested in trying the SC3 but unfortunately they are low inventory at the moment. I've heard very positive things about them from other drivers at HPDEs.

 

[Hack]

Cup 2R have a TW rating of 140. SC3R are 100 which you indicated correctly. So, as I said, Cup 2R and SC3R are more comparable to each other than what the OP was comparing in one of the posts (PS4S to SC3R).

The SC3s (TW 220) about split the difference between PS4S and Cup 2 (180).

And yes, the PS4S will last longer than SC3, but they are quite a bit more expensive than the SC3, so someone can go with the SC3 and change them more frequently and still come out ahead, $ wise, if that was a consideration for someone.

Tire Rack and the manufacturers disagree with your TW numbers. Please look them up. I did earlier in this thread.

Edit: you could be right that someone could go with the cheaper SC3 and change them more often and come out ahead. I haven't tried the SC3s yet, but I need tires this spring..

 

[Postal Bob]

Michelin is putting out the PS5 this year, maybe they'll have our sizes

Where did you read this?

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