Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 - ON TRACK (ANSWERED)

[K4fxd]

Point is I think it's a bit silly to advise someone who is already budget conscious to get summer tires for year round driving when they are concerned about their winter conditions.

I never advised him or anyone to use summer tires in cold weather

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[RocketGuy3]

I never advised him or anyone to use summer tires in cold weather

You didn't, no, but that was the original context of the discussion, and the main reason for my post... As I was getting at, I'm sure some people are far better at driving in specific conditions than others -- nothing can beat experience. I'm probably just no good at driving in snow. But there's still certain things you shouldn't do if you don't have to (and of course, doing it for fun or for practice in a safe env is another thing)

 

[Hack]

Point is I think it's a bit silly to advise someone who is already budget conscious to get summer tires for year round driving when they are concerned about their winter conditions.

I think you are right. Basically telling someone to nut up rather than patting them on the head and saying, "Sure buddy you are right." It's a little pushy and maybe silly. And I'm not recommending anyone use any tire in a temperature range outside of what the manufacturer states.

We had someone in this thread with the experience of being in a southern state and knowing what would happen if you run a specific summer tire year round with an S550 Mustang. I believe that person was correct in what they posted. Maybe people can disagree with how they said it, but I'd bet they are correct.

The typical low winter temperatures posted in this thread for Georgia are temperatures that I might use a summer tire in. Of course it might be in May or September/October here that this would happen, but I would definitely be comfortable driving with summer only tires on if the low was going to be in the 30s or warmer.

And when it's 30 degrees and I have summer tires on the car I don't drive like an a-hole like you implied. I take it super easy and I'm careful. I treat the gas pedal like I have an egg between my foot and the pedal. Same with the brakes. And steering inputs are smooth and gradual. And I also don't do it if there is widespread snow and ice. Dry roads with slightly cold temperatures.

I'm more likely to drift around in the snow with snow tires on. They are a lot more predictable. And I pick my spots when there's no one around and my speed is low.

 

[bnightstar]

And when it's 30 degrees and I have summer tires on the car I don't drive like an a-hole like you implied. I take it super easy and I'm careful. I treat the gas pedal like I have an egg between my foot and the pedal. Same with the brakes. And steering inputs are smooth and gradual. And I also don't do it if there is widespread snow and ice. Dry roads with slightly cold temperatures.

I did drive to the track on my AR-1's last time out in dry 30 degrees wether. It can be done but was not happy about it. Though was a lovely drive.

 

[RocketGuy3]

I think you are right. Basically telling someone to nut up rather than patting them on the head and saying, "Sure buddy you are right." It's a little pushy and maybe silly. And I'm not recommending anyone use any tire in a temperature range outside of what the manufacturer states.

We had someone in this thread with the experience of being in a southern state and knowing what would happen if you run a specific summer tire year round with an S550 Mustang. I believe that person was correct in what they posted. Maybe people can disagree with how they said it, but I'd bet they are correct.

The typical low winter temperatures posted in this thread for Georgia are temperatures that I might use a summer tire in. Of course it might be in May or September/October here that this would happen, but I would definitely be comfortable driving with summer only tires on if the low was going to be in the 30s or warmer.

And when it's 30 degrees and I have summer tires on the car I don't drive like an a-hole like you implied. I take it super easy and I'm careful. I treat the gas pedal like I have an egg between my foot and the pedal. Same with the brakes. And steering inputs are smooth and gradual. And I also don't do it if there is widespread snow and ice. Dry roads with slightly cold temperatures.

I'm more likely to drift around in the snow with snow tires on. They are a lot more predictable. And I pick my spots when there's no one around and my speed is low.

We may be getting into semantics now, but to be clear, I'll drive it in 30s (or even a bit less) a bit, though I generally avoid it. The main things I was talking about is when it gets even colder than that, like hard freezes, especially with precipitation. I thought that's what you were originally describing since, IIRC, this convo started with us talking about Minnesota snowstorms. I would absolutely not want to f*ck with that in this car in summer shoes.

 

[Ironpeddler]

Ok, you asked, I'll show. Direct off the Michelin website you posted a link to. On their tire and tips section regarding the different seasonal type of tires:

My Ecoboost with PP & HP came with Pirelli PZero Corsa tires when I bought it in January. I called Pirelli and, as luck would have it, was connected with their engineering department since I asked several questions about their Summer tires. They emphatically repeated not to run them below 45 degrees Fahrenheit…50 preferably. We spoke about how cold roads don’t allow the basic contact patch friction needed to heat them up so they display their handling characteristics and how hard cornering in cold conditions can damage the architecture of the entire tire, especially the sidewalls. While I have an engineering background involving petroleum, it’s not in formulating vulcanized rubber & tire cord. While we did discuss what additives make summer tires stickier and how they managed load shift within these softer compounds, I realized I needed to yield to their knowledge & expertise. I’m not sure how I could get more ‘up to date’ info than that. YMMV.

 

[slowdown]

My Ecoboost with PP & HP came with Pirelli PZero Corsa tires when I bought it in January. I called Pirelli and, as luck would have it, was connected with their engineering department since I asked several questions about their Summer tires. They emphatically repeated not to run them below 45 degrees Fahrenheit…50 preferably. We spoke about how cold roads don’t allow the basic contact patch friction needed to heat them up so they display their handling characteristics and how hard cornering in cold conditions can damage the architecture of the entire tire, especially the sidewalls. While I have an engineering background involving petroleum, it’s not in formulating vulcanized rubber & tire cord. While we did discuss what additives make summer tires stickier and how they managed load shift within these softer compounds, I realized I needed to yield to their knowledge & expertise. I’m not sure how I could get more ‘up to date’ info than that. YMMV.

Interesting - but the Corsa IMO is a terrible OEM selection as it's basically rated a sub 100TW tire which to me isn't a summer tire it's a race tire and would be illegal in many race series that require 200TW tires. I couldn't imagine taking those out on the street on a 40 degree day - would be like ice skates. And I'm sure they must get destroyed on the track compared to something like a set of RS4s.

That being said - I would have questioned the Pirelli engineers when it comes to using those tires on the track under 50 degrees as they referenced road driving specifically. One warm up lap on the track under hard braking and turn ins will create the contact patch necessary to warm up those tires IMO. While I don't do it my coldest morning session at NJMP last year was 37 degrees and guys ran 100s no problem. Sun was out and surface was fine.

OP should be on a set of 320TW Continental Extreme Contact Sport. I put 600+ minutes of laps on those tires in my first year starting out on the track (and they still had decent tread) and it took me the whole season to get to the point where I was making them scream before it became time to go down. My mechanic (former long time race driver) recommended them and he's right - I can't say enough about those tires for a 320TW rating.

 

[shogun32]

but the Corsa IMO is a terrible OEM selection as it's basically rated a sub 100TW tire which to me isn't a summer tire it's a race tire and would be illegal in many race series that require 200TW tires.

it wears like 250/300. The '80' is a farce! I have vastly more confidence in the Khumo v730 being a useful track tires than these Corsas.

 

[IPOGT]

So…….not to break up a perfectly good discussion, is the 4S All Season decent on track for what it is?
Curious because I put them on the Challenger replacing dry rotted oem Firestones and the ride and handling improvement was quite obvious.

 

[MrMike]

So…….not to break up a perfectly good discussion, is the 4S All Season decent on track for what it is?
Curious because I put them on the Challenger replacing dry rotted oem Firestones and the ride and handling improvement was quite obvious.

I think the best reply we got was from @Driv3n to Dr1ve earlier in the thread.

I doubt a lot of these responses are helpful lol, I’ve run 3 track days (circuit) with the pilot sport all season 4’s on my 2015 GT. Lateral grip is amazing for an all season, and I keep pace with vehicles running summer tires. The AS4 is versatile for daily duty since it lasts long, and handles rain very well. Snow is fine in a pinch, but I just work from home for the 5 days it sticks. I run 275 rear and 245 fronts on 9.5 inch RPF1’s.
Now there are decent summer tires that could be more optimal, and not sacrifice road manners much (Michelin pilot sport 4s). I’ll probably buy some for my next set, but the AS4’s have been great for the year I’ve had them.

In addition to that, other replies of people trying them also noted that they would overheat when pushed to the limit on a hot day. If you're in a hot, southern state you may have a bad time with them on the track.

I would bet they work quite well on a cool spring or fall day.

 

[K4fxd]

So…….not to break up a perfectly good discussion, is the 4S All Season decent on track for what it is?

For what it is sure. If all you want to do is have fun on a closed circuit go for it. Just realize you might get passed by lesser cars with better tires.

 

[IPOGT]

For what it is sure. If all you want to do is have fun on a closed circuit go for it. Just realize you might get passed by lesser cars with better tires.

Until it starts to rain. Then I’ll beat the crap out of them.

 

[dbtgt]

Well, these PS4S were on my car and driven at temps down to about 30 degrees only a few times here in Commiefornia in the past 3 years. The rears have 42k on them, the fronts maybe 10-14k less IDK. I will tell you this, the rears had zero grip. You decide if you should drive in cold temps.

FWIW - This sticker is on the B Pillar of my GT500 equipped with Michelin PS4S tires so this is reflective of Ford's opinion...

 

[Jstang23]

I live in Atlanta, GA and during the winters its not uncommon to see temperatures into the low 30s. I have run through 4 sets of Pilot Sport 4 s tires running all year with not many issues with grip and none with cracking. Of course if you step on it when its 30 degrees you'll light the tires up. But I've never once had any issues with chirping, sudden loss of grip, excessive understeer, etc. However, I think it isn't fair to compare experiences to people in other places. Tires are affected by many other factors, not just temperature. Michelin says these tires are good for anything above 20 degrees now... might have changed idk.

 

[Paul McWhiskey]

FWIW - This sticker is on the B Pillar of my GT500 equipped with Michelin PS4S tires so this is reflective of Ford's opinion...

Agreed. And, I also agree with Jack that there may have been changes in the tire compounds and certainly conditions play a role in tire performance from a cracking and grip point of view. Myself, I have a new set of PS4S 285/30/19's square set up on my car now and when the temps get to 45 degrees I drive another vehicle.

To my comment about no grip I want to add that the rears had 42K on them and were worn nearly to the wear bars. I did not expect them to grip as they had when they were new. It was just that they had become noticeably "greasier" under spirited acceleration and not that inspiring to be on. The fronts have fewer miles and perform just fine for street but the fact that they had also cracked did not give me complete confidence in them.

I don't mind that some may have had different, better, or worse experiences with tires, brakes, or any other parts that we all use. I m interested in almost everyone's experience.

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