MAPerformance: Ultimate R&D Thread | Air, Fuel, & Turbo Upgrades

[gte]

Ironically, you've accurately described your last couple of posts in this thread, when you said "totally useless post". I quoted everything that you wrote that was wrong, which was everything that you wrote that I quoted. Had you quit after the initial post, you'd have been fine.

It started when you tried to narrow your response to a set of environmental limitations that the original questioner did not specify, and it was said after the fact as a defensive response to you being corrected about the choice of adjectives that you used ... in the particular case you used the word slight, a gross under exaggeration. There was also some talk about you applying your own driving situations and money situation as a variable as to why you answered the questioner the way you did, assuming that his circumstances were identical to yours, same type of mistake as above. You also decided you would speculate on how much power you were losing and saying that you speculated it "wasn't that much" .

After that you psuedo acknowledged a tuners knowledge, but then qualified the acknowledgement saying that his only experience was at wide open throttle, and his area of expertise was not in the scenario of daily driving. <--- that actually had to be the dumbest thing I've read in this diatribe and was the icing on the cake.

All of that, speculative nonsense at best. I'll tell you what, if you don't believe a tuner that has continually logged and tested the parameters you are speculating about, then you can come to my house and we will put your MEB on my dynojet in my home garage and I'll show you how badly heat soak and an inadequate intercooler can affect performance.

You did at least say one thing that was accurate in the latter posts, which is quoted below ... but you must not have felt bad because you continued doing so with each keystroke.

And yes Kazy, I feel bad that I'm blowing hot air

Your biggest problem is that you suffer from the Dunning-Kruger Effect and I'd imagine that affects all parts of your life, not just your forum persona ;)



.

And this is a beautiful example of a totally useless post. I am speaking about what I know. Put up or shut up. Tell me where I'm wrong.

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[wmsky33]

Sorry Adam. I had no idea that such a simple response to someone's question, and my subsequent attempts to explain my response to you, would generate such a firestorm. I appreciate the civility of your response and the way you kept it to the point more than ever now. I'll stop here and hope the others will as well and let the thread get back to normal.

 

[ECM90]

Slight? If he did a 2nd gear pull from 2000rpms, by the time he hit top of 3rd gear he would of already sacrificed about 30hp, by middle of 4th it would be completely heatsoaked and will lose about 40-45hp.



I lost 30hp just doing back to back dyno pulls.



Tune is ok on stock car, but don't expect to make consistent power until you get an intercooler.

It's worth noting that these dyno pulls and recording the heat soak is not 100% accurate of driving on the street. Even with blowers, it's not close to the actual airflow hitting the intercooler while driving on the street.

Everyone is talking about heat soak on back to back dyno pulls where not much air is allowing the intercooler to do its job. Having said that, I'm an intercooler fan; just saying using the argument of heat soak on a dyno is somewhat weak since its giving higher temps/greater hp loss, then street application.

 

[MAPerformance]

Yeah, and by the time he got to top of 3rd he'd be going well over the speed that's legal on just about any road in the US. If I wasn't clear, I was talking strictly about daily driving where you rarely have your foot in it for more than about 3 seconds. At least, I rarely do, because by that time I'm going fast enough to be really dangerous if there is any kind of traffic on the roads.

I will eventually get an intercooler, because I do want consistent power, but it's probably going to be sometime middle of next year or so, most likely before next summer. I've watched my charge air temps while I'm driving, and even in the Texas 95 degree heat, they don't usually go over 145, and when they do, they typically drop 25 degrees in about 20 seconds after I'm out of boost. So, I know I'm losing power, but I don't think I'm losing much.

They must not have tracks by you, where you can exceed the speed limit ;). What you said is not a big deal, I'm just saying that using the word "slight" is an understatement.

Less heat is longer life. Give your baby that chance. 150 bats are crazy.

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Agreed.

It's worth noting that these dyno pulls and recording the heat soak is not 100% accurate of driving on the street. Even with blowers, it's not close to the actual airflow hitting the intercooler while driving on the street.

Everyone is talking about heat soak on back to back dyno pulls where not much air is allowing the intercooler to do its job. Having said that, I'm an intercooler fan; just saying using the argument of heat soak on a dyno is somewhat weak since its giving higher temps/greater hp loss, then street application.

We have a closed cell with high velocity fans that reach well over 80mph wind speeds, not to mention the air is recycled 2 times every 10 seconds in the dyno cell. We have a pretty well designed dyno that allows pretty accurate measurement. The same results we see on the dyno are the same we see on the street, dyno is just a controlled environment so I use it for testing. I back up the testing facts on the street, always.

 

[wmsky33]

They must not have tracks by you, where you can exceed the speed limit ;). What you said is not a big deal, I'm just saying that using the word "slight" is an understatement.

Yeah, I can see where "slight" was a poor choice of words and could have misled someone. I do appreciate you posting actual numbers in your correction. Thanks for that.

 

[jtmat]

So what do you know, and what data do you have to back it up?

Just my experience... no other data.

So spirited driving on a mountain road with multiple back to back 2nd and 3rd gear pulls will have not result in heat soak with the stock intercooler? You are saying a lot about performance enhancements while self identifying as the "cruiser".

I had maybe three hours of hwy running with some modified GTs and then some back road driving (where I grew up, in the country) very spirited driving and some 0-60 runs. It was around the 4th of July in SC. I was on it pretty hard... for street driving.

I personally did not see a performance issue with my car. And in my everyday driving, which does include some spirited driving, but not much, I can say that I don't have performance issues.

Why are you in a vendor's thread proclaiming that upgraded intercoolers are not necessary outside of track focused vehicles? Why not hop in a thread asking for opinions on whether an intercooler is needed or not, or if you really want to talk to someone that bad about "what you know", simply walk up from your parents basement and talk to them about it?

:threadjacked:

Stop your whining doofus... my mom does not even have a basement. I've had my own place for over 25 years.

Maybe if you would stay out of the vendor's thread this would have died down a long time ago. Think about it.

I'm sure MAP needs no protecting... and anyway, who would listen to me? I'm just an opinion... I have no facts, just my experiences.

 

[ECM90]

We have a closed cell with high velocity fans that reach well over 80mph wind speeds, not to mention the air is recycled 2 times every 10 seconds in the dyno cell. We have a pretty well designed dyno that allows pretty accurate measurement. The same results we see on the dyno are the same we see on the street, dyno is just a controlled environment so I use it for testing. I back up the testing facts on the street, always.

Good to know. My understanding was coming from my local tuner shop, which has a blower setup and said his, and like most, don't produce the same cfm as street conditions, although they have the airspeed. Kinda of like a leaf blower blows a 100mph but pointing it towards your car wouldn't replicate the amount of air cooling your intercooler driving a 100mph.

But it sounds like you have a legit setup. I know I've read how Cobb has something that sounds similar to what you run. Serious business.

 

[Tune+]

Good to know. My understanding was coming from my local tuner shop, which has a blower setup and said his, and like most, don't produce the same cfm as street conditions, although they have the airspeed. Kinda of like a leaf blower blows a 100mph but pointing it towards your car wouldn't replicate the amount of air cooling your intercooler driving a 100mph.

But it sounds like you have a legit setup. I know I've read how Cobb has something that sounds similar to what you run. Serious business.

Cobb only has a single duct up front, and an open door out back. MAPerformance has a 50" intake and exhaust fan that moves some serious air. However Cobb does have a brand new Dynojet Lynx dyno that I was lucky enough to use a month or so back, it truly is a nice piece!

 

[Brad]

I have a question about the Precision 5862 turbo used in the kit: is the center section not water-cooled? If not, can that be added as an upgrade, or is a turbo timer required?

Precision turbos are not water cooled and have no peripheries for add ons like that. That is one of the drawbacks of that system, but also a price saving entity.

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Since when do turbo timers connect directly to the turbo? Turbo timers time your idle after you turn off the car, most of the work is done in the steering column because it wires into your ignition switch. Why talk about something you have no knowledge of?

 

[superblur]

Since when do turbo timers connect directly to the turbo? Turbo timers time your idle after you turn off the car, most of the work is done in the steering column because it wires into your ignition switch. Why talk about something you have no knowledge of?

I'm pretty sure he was talking about being water cooled. I didn't see them mention anything bout turbo timers in what you quoted

 

[Brad]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about being water cooled. I didn't see them mention anything bout turbo timers in what you quoted

My mistake if he was talking about "water cooling" as an add on. It's 5am.

 

[Brianh922]

Hey, Brad did you ever get the numbers for your setup with the 6062?

 

[Brad]

Hey, Brad did you ever get the numbers for your setup with the 6062?

Not on a good dyno. Getting a run on a dynojet soon for some real numbers :cheers:

 

[FraG]

So I took the leap and bought the MAP Street intercooler. Can't wait to get my hands on it ;)

Now I am not a mechanic by any means, so wondering how hard it is to install leaving the bumper on with a Mustang that has AGS? I watched the install video which incorporates the charge piping, and as I am leaving my stock piping I assume that I can leave all the intakes and pipes in place and simply lift the rad/condenser.

[ame]

Anyone do this with just jacking the vehicle up as I am not 100% sure I will have access to hoist

 

[bajakiter]

I have the same intercooler you do, install was easy enough. The hardest part was getting the OEM intercooler out. I left the bumper on but did the charge pipes at the same time so not sure about leaving everything else in place. All done on ramps, no lift for me either. Total start to finish time was about 4 hours, that of course included time for beer and pizza

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