Mach 1 vs Camaro SS 1LE

[TTown]

Judging cars that are within spitting distance of each other by professional driver lap times is foolish for myriad reasons... Put the same Cup 2s that the PP2 has on the 1LE and the Camaro will be faster around any track than the PP2. Probably the Mach 1 as well, even with the handling pack.

None of us are professional racers, so why do we care about the potential of going half a second faster around a track? It's going to come down to the driver, not the car, 99% of the time with these cars.

Well, b/c car enthusiasts talk about cars, compare cars and specs, engage on forums about cars, enjoy the banter, the rivalry, etc. That's why.

Sponsored

 

[martinjlm]

Judging cars that are within spitting distance of each other by professional driver lap times is foolish for myriad reasons... Put the same Cup 2s that the PP2 has on the 1LE and the Camaro will be faster around any track than the PP2. Probably the Mach 1 as well, even with the handling pack.

None of us are professional racers, so why do we care about the potential of going half a second faster around a track? It's going to come down to the driver, not the car, 99% of the time with these cars.

At the end of the day it comes down to each individual deciding what balance works best for them. Professional laps and test reviews are just information. If I wanted the fastest car in a straight line I could get that information from instrumented test drives. If I wanted the best bang for buck track monster I could get that from watching Randy Pobst and others wringing out cars on tracks I’ll probably never have a chance to visit. But it still comes down to balance and getting what floats your boat.

Arguably, I should be in a 1LE based on the the elements of driving that excite me most, but 1LE doesn’t come in a convertible and that was a must have for me. So I ended up with a Camaro that gives me great straight line performance and excellent handling performance and looks pretty damn good. Others putting more weight on straight line performance might make a different decision. Some putting more weight on handling would have made an even different choice.

I like the Mach I and would consider buying one, but at the price, I’d have a1LE on one shoulder saying “you don’t have to spend that much to get a track monster” and I’d have a used GT350 on the other shoulder saying “but if you are willing to spend that much”…

 

[shogun32]

someone earlier mentioned relative damping between the GT and 'maro. I haven't driven a Mach1 yet so these next statements are relative to a '18 GT350 (not an R) and the PP1 equipped with MR.

The Ford compression damping is indeed less across the board - more pillowy action over sharp impacts. Even in 'Track' mode the damping is no higher (I would say it's still rather less) than the Camaro uses for Sport as felt thru the seat of the pants. The let down in the Ford tune was bump recovery.

Camaro Track mode they dialed up the high-speed comp too much in my book. The slow-comp to help with chassis tilt is good. In Normal mode the comp is like Ford - "that was a pavement seam or frost heave?" and the rebound is a bit too loose. Sport mode is the sweet spot where they have dialed the rebound up enough to maintain stability and comp lets you know that was a bump or pavement seam but doesn't drive the force into the chassis . Track mode you feel the bumps far more than you should but the recovery from large amplitude movement is swift. Really only should be used on surfaces that are smooth and/or you plan to deliberately whack things like curbing, and want maximum tactile feedback.

 

[Hack]

There's a 2019 1LE with 9000 miles on it for sale 10 minutes from my house. I must be a shallow superficial person but even though it slightly outperforms all the Mustangs, I can't even make myself go test drive it because I can't get past the looks (from outside OR inside, I have test driven a base SS). Its the perfect car analogy to a blind date who is described as "she's got a great personality." Love the wheels but just can't get past the body. I like taking my car to shows and people just walk right past 1LE's but are interested in Mustangs. My 19 yr old son's observation of the 1LE is, it doesn't look much different than a regular car, and that black hood looks stupid. Granted, one person's opinion. It's kind of similar with C8 Corvettes - better performance but I'd rather have a Mach 1 because you can't get a manual in the C8. But if you want a dedicated track car it would be a no-brainer to get a 1LE.

For a dedicated track car you still have to decide what is most important to you. I hate engines that don't rev on track. To me the Camaro engine is more set up for street driving. It doesn't wind out nearly as well as the Coyote. A small difference in lap time won't be very noticeable to me, but an engine that doesn't rev out will bother me constantly.

I've never heard anything but great things from anyone who has attended.
$1700 value and opportunity to race Fords cars in the infield track at Charlotte motor speedway.

I really enjoyed the GT350 track attack as well. And the extra SWAG that Ford sends out with their "special" cars is really cool.

Coyote motors are cheap and plentiful and available for next 20 years. Voodoo not so much.
Can Randy do a Bad video if he tried?

I just wished Randy could be a little less biased. He upgraded the Camaro tires and did a track alignment on it. The Mach 1 he did nothing to. Perfect recipe to appreciate the Camaro more. Why not do what most people would do for the track? Alignment yes. Good tires yes. If you're going to upgrade one car, upgrade both.

And before the chip issues the 1LE could be had at really nice discounts while the Mach1's getting marked UP. Including that it wasn't hard to see almost 20K difference between them. That means you could get a 1LE for the track and a Honda Civic for daily use for close to the price of the mach1.

When a car first comes out it does cost more. If I wanted a SS 1LE I'd buy a used one. They've been around for years.


The electric car discussion was interesting to me. It seems like electric cars are only for those who can afford a house with a garage and have extra money to upgrade the electric. Are car companies done offering cars that are affordable?

 

[RocketGuy3]

Well, b/c car enthusiasts talk about cars, compare cars and specs, engage on forums about cars, enjoy the banter, the rivalry, etc. That's why.

Sure, it can be fun to discuss from an enthusiast standpoint, I'll give you that, hah. Just shouldn't be much of a factor in your purchasing decision.

At the end of the day it comes down to each individual deciding what balance works best for them. Professional laps and test reviews are just information. If I wanted the fastest car in a straight line I could get that information from instrumented test drives. If I wanted the best bang for buck track monster I could get that from watching Randy Pobst and others wringing out cars on tracks I’ll probably never have a chance to visit. But it still comes down to balance and getting what floats your boat.

Arguably, I should be in a 1LE based on the the elements of driving that excite me most, but 1LE doesn’t come in a convertible and that was a must have for me. So I ended up with a Camaro that gives me great straight line performance and excellent handling performance and looks pretty damn good. Others putting more weight on straight line performance might make a different decision. Some putting more weight on handling would have made an even different choice.

I like the Mach I and would consider buying one, but at the price, I’d have a1LE on one shoulder saying “you don’t have to spend that much to get a track monster” and I’d have a used GT350 on the other shoulder saying “but if you are willing to spend that much”…

I'm not totally sure why you're replying to me because I don't think any of this contradicts anything I said in the post you're quoting lol.

I'm just saying that picking a car based on laptimes performed by a professional driver who's skills we're unlikely to ever touch is silly (especially considering those who really care about these times are less likely to even go to the track at all). Not to mention all the infinite variables that come with performance numbers and track times... It's also not even what the OP of this thread was actually asking about. It might be worth verifying that the cars are at least in the same league, but we're obviously not talking about a Civic vs a Ferrari here. We're just splitting hairs.

With regards to your last paragraph, I would agree there are perfectly valid reasons to pick a 1LE or a GT350 over a Mach 1, but the opposite is true as well... Also, as I was getting at a couple posts ago, the 1LE is not any cheaper than the Mach 1 at the moment.

 

[shogun32]

He upgraded the Camaro tires and did a track alignment on it. The Mach 1 he did nothing to. Perfect recipe to appreciate the Camaro more

'He' didn't do anything. Motortrend bozos Problem was they didn't consult with the owners and as a condition of borrowing it did not stump the money to get both cars set up on equal footing.

 

[Norm Peterson]

That's what I like about you shogun; you're not a bit biased.

On the matter of lowering alone, shogun nailed it.


Norm

 

[Hack]

'He' didn't do anything. Motortrend bozos Problem was they didn't consult with the owners and as a condition of borrowing it did not stump the money to get both cars set up on equal footing.

I see. I assume this info was in a part of the video I didn't watch. I skipped the BS drive sections up to the area towards the end where he named the alignment shop that the Camaro received its performance alignment in. Then I killed the video because I felt as though it was worthless to watch at that point. At least I only wasted a minute or two rather than 20 minutes - only to find out that they didn't do a decent comparison.

 

[Norm Peterson]

None of us are professional racers, so why do we care about the potential of going half a second faster around a track? It's going to come down to the driver, not the car, 99% of the time with these cars.

Because we assign weights to each of the factors that go into our individual car purchase decisions - whether we even recognize that we're doing that. And they're going to be different for each of us.

For example, my preference in chassis dynamics runs pretty close to what martinjlm posted, but I do not share his need for my car to be a convertible.

And I know that some of my stronger preferences do not match up with those of many other people here.


Norm

 

[TTown]

Sure, it can be fun to discuss from an enthusiast standpoint, I'll give you that, hah. Just shouldn't be much of a factor in your purchasing decision.

I think technically you are right. But, in the enthusiast, sports car world, that's not reality. Sure, everyone has different criteria that runs the spectrum for what is a great sports car to them. But, let's be real. As evidenced by this and other forums, relative performance is a factor for many in a niche world full of braggadocio (where my car can beat your car, etc. etc.).

 

[RocketGuy3]

Because we assign weights to each of the factors that go into our individual car purchase decisions - whether we even recognize that we're doing that. And they're going to be different for each of us.

For example, my preference in chassis dynamics runs pretty close to what martinjlm posted, but I do not share his need for my car to be a convertible.

And I know that some of my stronger preferences do not match up with those of many other people here.


Norm

A preference in chassis dynamics is not comparable to a preference in Randy Pobst's laptimes...

I think technically you are right. But, in the enthusiast, sports car world, that's not reality. Sure, everyone has different criteria that runs the spectrum for what is a great sports car to them. But, let's be real. As evidenced by this and other forums, relative performance is a factor for many in a niche world full of braggadocio (where my car can beat your car, etc. etc.).

I know that's how people think. My point is that people are foolish. And it's more than "to each their own". I think people are sometimes buying cars that they legit might not enjoy as much just because of magazine racing.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I see. I assume this info was in a part of the video I didn't watch. I skipped the BS drive sections up to the area towards the end where he named the alignment shop that the Camaro received it's performance alignment in. Then I killed the video because I felt as though it was worthless to watch at that point. At least I only wasted a minute or two rather than 20 minutes - only to find out that they didn't do a decent comparison.

It wasn't an equal comparison, it was one of those race what you bring kind of videos. You may have missed the part where he said the Camaro had 40k miles, and the brakes were not performing well (at least up to normal 1LE standards), and he couldn't put the power down without oversteer in the middle of the turns (all things he doesn't normally see with 1LEs). He wasn't sure if they were stock brake pads or not, he also thought maybe it was the first time they were hot, so he said he was getting a lot of fade in the Camaro that he doesn't typically see in the 1LEs. The Mach 1 was new. Both had advantages (1LE more negative camber, Mach 1 fresh brakes). And he made the point that both could have been faster, if the Mach 1 had more negative camber, and if the Camaro had proper brakes as from the factory.

 

[Hack]

It wasn't an equal comparison, it was one of those race what you bring kind of videos. You may have missed the part where he said the Camaro had 40k miles, and the brakes were not performing well (at least up to normal 1LE standards), and he couldn't put the power down without oversteer in the middle of the turns (all things he doesn't normally see with 1LEs). He wasn't sure if they were stock brake pads or not, he also thought maybe it was the first time they were hot, so he said he was getting a lot of fade in the Camaro that he doesn't typically see in the 1LEs. The Mach 1 was new. Both had advantages (1LE more negative camber, Mach 1 fresh brakes). And he made the point that both could have been faster, if the Mach 1 had more negative camber, and if the Camaro had proper brakes as from the factory.

Ahh. Too bad. It's a missed opportunity to actually compare the two cars rather than comparing something random with guesswork.

 

[Norm Peterson]

A preference in chassis dynamics is not comparable to a preference in Randy Pobst's laptimes...

But reviews like his serve as part of my basis for judgment as to which cars are better oriented to at least semi-hardcore cornering.

Precise lap times don't mean nearly as much to me as they do to him when he suits up for a race, but that doesn't mean that his inputs (and even magazine reviews) have no value to me. I make my own interpretations and judgments from there.

That kind of performance potential - whether or not I ever use all of it - means as much to me as I suspect tinted windows means to you. Maybe more.. We just want different things from our cars. Cornering and handling is my 'thing'.

I know that's how people think. My point is that people are foolish. And it's more than "to each their own". I think people are sometimes buying cars that they legit might not enjoy as much just because of magazine racing.

For some people, sure. But I'm not into basking in the reflected glory of my car's presumed bragging rights. As in, not at all. It's all about what I can get out of it in the way I want to be able to use it (at least on occasion), and how that might lead to me getting more out of myself as a performance driver. Really is that simple.


Norm

 

[martinjlm]

Sure, it can be fun to discuss from an enthusiast standpoint, I'll give you that, hah. Just shouldn't be much of a factor in your purchasing decision.



I'm not totally sure why you're replying to me because I don't think any of this contradicts anything I said in the post you're quoting lol.

I'm just saying that picking a car based on laptimes performed by a professional driver who's skills we're unlikely to ever touch is silly (especially considering those who really care about these times are less likely to even go to the track at all). Not to mention all the infinite variables that come with performance numbers and track times... It's also not even what the OP of this thread was actually asking about. It might be worth verifying that the cars are at least in the same league, but we're obviously not talking about a Civic vs a Ferrari here. We're just splitting hairs.

With regards to your last paragraph, I would agree there are perfectly valid reasons to pick a 1LE or a GT350 over a Mach 1, but the opposite is true as well... Also, as I was getting at a couple posts ago, the 1LE is not any cheaper than the Mach 1 at the moment.

Because I was agreeing with you. Sometimes I do that to confuse people.

Sponsored