Mach 1 vs Camaro SS 1LE

danpass

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My most recent Advanced session track day was Feb 29, 2020. There were a number of Camaros on track. They are damn fast.

Really fast on the oval part too*. In my Focus ST I was only comfortable doing 90 but those Camaros were doing about 110-115.


*Advanced session at Homestead uses the NE half of the oval

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BU11LTO

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The Camaro has better driving position than the mustang. With the mustang you feel like you're sitting on the car rather than in it.
I have a Mach 1 & have owned Recaros & standard seats l would agree if Recaros were fitted but not at all with standard seats you sit down in the car.
 

OnThree

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I have a Mach 1 & have owned Recaros & standard seats l would agree if Recaros were fitted but not at all with standard seats you sit down in the car.
Maybe that's what it is, I had recaros too and I thought the driving position was not great
 

BU11LTO

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Maybe that's what it is, I had recaros too and I thought the driving position was not great
Have to say l was not impressed with the Recaros for the price or finish plus uncomfortable on lower back if in car for more than hour & l am slim build.
Standard seats are far better IMO due to sitting position in the car, comfort plus still give support, Material finish plus you get cooled & heated seats would not go back to recaros & you save in the UK £1,900 by ordering the standard seat.
 

danpass

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I stuck with the climate controlled leather in my order as well. I once rented from Hertz a 2017 Mustang GT, leather seats, and drove from Miami to Key West, and back, in the same day and wasN'T wiped out, not even a little. That spoke well for the seat comfort.
 

BU11LTO

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I stuck with the climate controlled leather in my order as well. I once rented from Hertz a 2017 Mustang GT, leather seats, and drove from Miami to Key West, and back, in the same day and wasN'T wiped out, not even a little. That spoke well for the seat comfort.
Totally agree.
 

martinjlm

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I have a Mach 1 & have owned Recaros & standard seats l would agree if Recaros were fitted but not at all with standard seats you sit down in the car.
I drive a Camaro SS convertible (in my avatar). I often drive press cars. I drove a Bullitt one week and a GT350 (in my avatar) the next week. The driving position of the GT350 was very similar to the driving position in my Camaro. I loved the GT350. Didn’t want to give it back. The Bullitt felt like I was riding on top of the car. No problems giving that one back. TBH, that was mainly because the difference in MT between the two Mustangs was immense, but the driving position was a factor in me not really vibing with the Bullitt.
 
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Hard to believe. It took me 6 months to get my Mach 1. Camaro's biggest problem is the driver position which they seem unable or unwilling to change. Yes, I've been one and it is not an enjoyable driver position. Handling is fantastic, torque and HP very good. But, at the end of the day most buyers want a car that gives them a commanding driving position and don't track the car at all.
Not hard to believe - I'm talking about 2021 sales. The chip shortage - you've heard of it right? That's the reason for nearly non-existent 2021 camaro sales. Production ceased for months and there is next to no inventory nationwide. That said, yes, the decline in sales over 10 years has everything to do with poor visibility, small interior, tiny trunk, etc.
 

GreenS550

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Not hard to believe - I'm talking about 2021 sales. The chip shortage - you've heard of it right? That's the reason for nearly non-existent 2021 camaro sales. Production ceased for months and there is next to no inventory nationwide. That said, yes, the decline in sales over 10 years has everything to do with poor visibility, small interior, tiny trunk, etc.
Did you even read my post? It took 6 months to get my car. But mustang sales are wayyyy better than Camaro sales. Camaros are not a well received car. If you read my post you'll know it took 6 months to get the M1. Camaros have poor sales because people don't like the car. There is next to no inventory for ALL U.S. cars. GM, Chrysler and Ford alike. Camaro is not a high priority for GM because sales are poor.
 

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2019 PP2 vs 2019 1LE, both on Cup 2's, same track, same day, same driver...

Watched this for the umpteenth time this morning and noticed for the first time that the Mustang has a larger wheel well gap than the Camaro, when they are side by side at the end of the video. The Mustang is a little taller too, probably mainly for that reason. Wonder how much effect that had on the lap times, and what effect lowering the Mustang to have a similar stance as the Camaro would have had.
 

shogun32

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Wonder how much effect that had on the lap times, and what effect lowering the Mustang to have a similar stance as the Camaro would have had.
none and none.
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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Watched this for the umpteenth time this morning and noticed for the first time that the Mustang has a larger wheel well gap than the Camaro, when they are side by side at the end of the video. The Mustang is a little taller too, probably mainly for that reason. Wonder how much effect that had on the lap times, and what effect lowering the Mustang to have a similar stance as the Camaro would have had.
The wheel gaps are larger on the PP2 Mustang because it has small diameter 305/30/R19 tires. They are small diameter compared to the 285/30/20 and 305/30/20 tires on the Camaro SS 1LE.

The small dia. tire lowers the center of gravity slightly compared to a PP1, for example.
 

sakman84

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Not hard to believe - I'm talking about 2021 sales. The chip shortage - you've heard of it right? That's the reason for nearly non-existent 2021 camaro sales. Production ceased for months and there is next to no inventory nationwide. That said, yes, the decline in sales over 10 years has everything to do with poor visibility, small interior, tiny trunk, etc.
Truth!

GM had always treated the Camaro as an after thought, that only got worse as the production run continued. They just didn't put a lot of effort in to selling the car. Remember sports cars are such a small niche market, they had other vehicles which were way more important to their business. It offered a great performance value for the price, but marketing and improvements were not priorities for them.

Amazingly, GM was told about the visibility many times, they consciously choose not to fix it, based on feedback they received at a "clinic" they held comparing Mustang, Camaro, and 370Z. Fascinating tid bit in here about that.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/02/explained-why-the-chevrolet-camaro-has-such-poor-visibility/


The Camaro team decided to hold a clinic, which Oppenheiser stated rarely happens, but upon inviting a group of people to compare the fifth-generation Camaro to the Mustang, Challenger and Nissan 370Z, the group called for the poor visibility to stay.

“They got to the Camaro and [we] said ‘What would you tell Chevrolet about the Camaro if you could redesign it, if you helped give input to the next one?’ And they said ‘Well, I can’t see out of it.’ ” But, in the end, customers stated they would rather sacrifice visibility than see the iconic look of the car morphed into something unfamiliar.

“They all went, ‘Don’t change it! We love the styling, that’s why we bought it!’ ”

Overall, Oppenheiser stated the sightlines are better than the outgoing Camaro, but noted the more you drive it, the more familiar it becomes.

“If you spent six months in it, you’d learn to drive around it.”​

I'd really like the details of this clinic to do some analysis. His statement makes it sound like it was made up of customers who actually bought Camaros. This probably isn't the best sample population to ask about fixing the car's visibility. This group bought the car WITH the shit visibility to begin with. You needed to ask sports car segment buyers in general, not just Camaro owners, you would have gotten a vastly different result.

"6 months, you'd learn to drive around it"​

Flabbergasting! this logic says it will take you 8,000 miles 6 months for you to get comfortable driving it! That is going to be a very hard sell on the showroom floor....

Hey GM, did you ever ask yourself how many POTENTIAL BUYERS walked away from the car because the visibility sucks????? That is the more important question and population.

Visibility hurt, that car's sales. Not just speaking from my own opinion, how many times have you heard someone say "Love the car, just couldn't see out of it". Heard this at least half a dozen times. Those buyers went elsewhere for their sports, car mostly to Mustang I'd guess. GM was always highly focused on the car's styling, hence all the fascia changes, to the detriment of other factors like visibility.

All that said, it is an excellent performance car, and the 1LE track pack cars are an excellent value.
 

shogun32

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classic case of a dishonest survey. Dropping the sill by an inch, pulling the brow by 2" and raising the roof-line less than an inch hardly changes the shape. All they have to do is look back to the 60/70's cars for a "proper" greenhouse.
 
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