Looking to trade my 2018 Dodge Charger scatpack for 2020 mustang gt

[Jmtoast]

It's the Direct Injection, not a 2K rattle or piston slap.

2K rattles were on GEN2 Coyotes. Now everyone thinks the normal clacking sound of D.I. on GEN3s is the 2K rattle.

true. DI tick can be pretty loud on cold starts, then once it warms up it quiets down. Especially if you have upgraded injectors. There are different ticks people are confusing.

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[dx2]

Ok, I assumed DI was only used at higher load / rpm.

 

[Qcman17]

Ok, I assumed DI was only used at higher load / rpm.

I believe it kicks in around 2k or so and that's why many of us think the rattle heard from there up to say 2800 may be related to the mechanical DI pump ramping up.

 

[dx2]

The workshop manual mentions DI as well as a tool called EngineEAR/ChassisEAR to help locate engine noises:
https://www.steelmantools.com/cassisear-two-combo-kit

There's also a diagnosis table dedicated only to engine noise spanning 80 pages.
It must be quite difficult to distinguish certain noises from another without good experience or having such a tool.

According to the manual the DI pump is located below the intake manifold and there is also a noise insulator for the DI pump.

Fuel injector noise
A common source of an engine ticking noise can be related to the fuel injection pump Gasoline
Turbocharged Direct Injection (GTDI) engine or fuel injector(s). This is normal engine noise that can
be verified by listening to another vehicle. If the injector noise is excessive or irregular, use the
EngineEAR/ChassisEAR or stethoscope to isolate the noise to a specific fuel injector.

...
Upper end engine noise
A common source of upper end engine noise (ticking, knocking or rattle) include the camshaft(s) and
valve train. ...

Lower end engine noise
A common source of lower end engine noise (ticking or knocking) include the crankshaft, connecting
rod(s) and bearings. Lower end noises can be determined by using the oil pan or lower cylinder block.
If the noise is loudest from these areas, then the noise is lower end. If an engine noise is isolated to the
lower end, some disassembly of the engine may be required to inspect for damage or wear.

Front of engine noise
A common source of noise from the front of the engine (squeal, chirp, whine or hoot) is the FEAD
components. ...

Rear of engine noise
A common source of noise from the rear of the engine (knocking) is the flywheel/flexplate. Inspection
of the flywheel/flexplate will be necessary.
Some engines have timing drive components at the rear of the engine and may be the source of noise
(ticking, knocking or rattle). ...

 

[NoVaGT]

I believe it kicks in around 2k or so and that's why many of us think the rattle heard from there up to say 2800 may be related to the mechanical DI pump ramping up.

As far as I can tell, DI runs at most any RPMs, dependent on many things that I'm not educated on. I can tell you that on a cold morning, like in 30s and below, it starts right up in DI. Then it cycles back & forth as the engine warms, then it does some DI and some PFI.....it's just all over the place.

You can hear the difference. It's dramatic. The DI clacks and clacks. Then it switches to PFI and the engine goes into sewing machine mode. Then a little clacking when it's part DI and part PFI.

When the engine is running in straight PFI, it's just silent and silky smooth. Every now and again you'll notice it's like there's no engine, like the car is running on an electric motor. Especially when the car is fully warmed and you're puttering around a parking lot at 3 MPH.

When you're doing normal driving, it's next to impossible to tell when the engine is in DI or PFI mode, or somewhere in between. From inside the car, with the normal sounds of the engine, exhaust, tires, transmission, stereo, etc., you can't hear those sounds.

Also, the purpose of that huge engine cover is some noise insulation against the sound the the DIers doing their thing. I'd imagine that if you remove it, the sound of the DI would be louder. Although I've never removed it to check.

 

[Jmtoast]

The workshop manual mentions DI as well as a tool called EngineEAR/ChassisEAR to help locate engine noises:
https://www.steelmantools.com/cassisear-two-combo-kit

There's also a diagnosis table dedicated only to engine noise spanning 80 pages.
It must be quite difficult to distinguish certain noises from another without good experience or having such a tool.

According to the manual the DI pump is located below the intake manifold and there is also a noise insulator for the DI pump.

My tech used a stethoscope and isolated the ticking to the injectors or pump. Can't remember which but I also believe he said the car ramps up fuel being injected on cold starts and then that changes as the car warms and the fuel demand levels off. In colder weather its worse. I got a Roush tech who does all their Roush and ford performance work. they would have had no problem swapping whatever they needed. In fact they are most likely swapping out my SC due to some noises coming from it that I didn't even know about.

 

[NoVaGT]

My tech used a stethoscope and isolated the ticking to the injectors or pump. Can't remember which but I also believe he said the car ramps up fuel being injected on cold starts and then that changes as the car warms and the fuel demand levels off. In colder weather its worse. I got a Roush tech who does all their Roush and ford performance work. they would have had no problem swapping whatever they needed. In fact they are most likely swapping out my SC due to some noises coming from it that I didn't even know about.

Did you take your car in at some point worried about clacking from under the hood?

It would make sense that the DI clacking in your car would be louder, as I'm assuming the installation of the SCer means the engine cover is gone.

 

[Jmtoast]

Did you take your car in at some point worried about clacking from under the hood?

It would make sense that the DI clacking in your car would be louder, as I'm assuming the installation of the SCer means the engine cover is gone.

yeah I had a tick. It was rhythmic in nature and it started after my first oil change but I also had the supercharger installed at the same time (and no engine cover). You can only hear it when it's colder on cold starts. When the car is warm or it's above 80 out it's non-existent.

 

[Sivi70980]

As far as I can tell, DI runs at most any RPMs, dependent on many things that I'm not educated on. I can tell you that on a cold morning, like in 30s and below, it starts right up in DI. Then it cycles back & forth as the engine warms, then it does some DI and some PFI.....it's just all over the place.

You can hear the difference. It's dramatic. The DI clacks and clacks. Then it switches to PFI and the engine goes into sewing machine mode. Then a little clacking when it's part DI and part PFI.

When the engine is running in straight PFI, it's just silent and silky smooth. Every now and again you'll notice it's like there's no engine, like the car is running on an electric motor. Especially when the car is fully warmed and you're puttering around a parking lot at 3 MPH.

When you're doing normal driving, it's next to impossible to tell when the engine is in DI or PFI mode, or somewhere in between. From inside the car, with the normal sounds of the engine, exhaust, tires, transmission, stereo, etc., you can't hear those sounds.

Also, the purpose of that huge engine cover is some noise insulation against the sound the the DIers doing their thing. I'd imagine that if you remove it, the sound of the DI would be louder. Although I've never removed it to check.

Can say the DI sound wasn't much quieter with the engine cover on. The temp only shrinks the range of the sound as it warms up. Cold it's about 1800 to 3k. Warm it's about 2200 to 2800. Only under light throttle in those ranges and never higher or lower. Hit the gas more and the sound will go away before the exhaust drowns everything out. Again not worried about it but pointing out differences in our experiences.

 

[Qcman17]

As far as I can tell, DI runs at most any RPMs, dependent on many things that I'm not educated on. I can tell you that on a cold morning, like in 30s and below, it starts right up in DI. Then it cycles back & forth as the engine warms, then it does some DI and some PFI.....it's just all over the place.

You can hear the difference. It's dramatic. The DI clacks and clacks. Then it switches to PFI and the engine goes into sewing machine mode. Then a little clacking when it's part DI and part PFI.

When the engine is running in straight PFI, it's just silent and silky smooth. Every now and again you'll notice it's like there's no engine, like the car is running on an electric motor. Especially when the car is fully warmed and you're puttering around a parking lot at 3 MPH.

When you're doing normal driving, it's next to impossible to tell when the engine is in DI or PFI mode, or somewhere in between. From inside the car, with the normal sounds of the engine, exhaust, tires, transmission, stereo, etc., you can't hear those sounds.

Also, the purpose of that huge engine cover is some noise insulation against the sound the the DIers doing their thing. I'd imagine that if you remove it, the sound of the DI would be louder. Although I've never removed it to check.

You could be right what I notice is how smooth this idles compared to my LS powered Camaro before it. Mine is a really noisy bitch the way it rattles in the 2000-2800 RPM range but so far the car has been good and that is what matters. I noticed a bit more oil consumption recently but I was flogging it a lot too. The rattle I hear may well be DI clacking too I just don't know what that is supposed sound like either. Bottom line I love the car and she's staying

 

[wilkinda65]

As far as I can tell, DI runs at most any RPMs, dependent on many things that I'm not educated on. I can tell you that on a cold morning, like in 30s and below, it starts right up in DI. Then it cycles back & forth as the engine warms, then it does some DI and some PFI.....it's just all over the place.

You can hear the difference. It's dramatic. The DI clacks and clacks. Then it switches to PFI and the engine goes into sewing machine mode. Then a little clacking when it's part DI and part PFI.

When the engine is running in straight PFI, it's just silent and silky smooth. Every now and again you'll notice it's like there's no engine, like the car is running on an electric motor. Especially when the car is fully warmed and you're puttering around a parking lot at 3 MPH.

When you're doing normal driving, it's next to impossible to tell when the engine is in DI or PFI mode, or somewhere in between. From inside the car, with the normal sounds of the engine, exhaust, tires, transmission, stereo, etc., you can't hear those sounds.

Also, the purpose of that huge engine cover is some noise insulation against the sound the the DIers doing their thing. I'd imagine that if you remove it, the sound of the DI would be louder. Although I've never removed it to check.

This makes a lot of sense. How would the drive modes affect this noise? I have noticed the rattle is worse even on the Shelby in normal mode vs Sport or Track. I assumed the rattle was the same plate under the car as my 2018 had that was rattling when cold. Maybe this is not that issue. On the 18 they removed the plate and provided dampening bushings. that noise though was clearly coming from under the car and not from under the hood.

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