Long tubes, N gauge e85 tune and JLT intake?

[19BULLITTwhipple]

Cause i tested on dyno.
The same day. Oem2018 vs JLT.

Do the same test with the hood closed. The open air jlt is getting atmosphere air. When the closed stock box isn’t. It’s just not a proper test. Dyno them both with the hood closed. You’ll dis prove your findings

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[19BULLITTwhipple]

Hopefully next Tuesday I'll be able to add my 2 cents worth. Getting 1st dyno since adding longtubes and JLT ...

Get the Steeda closed air box.. trust me iats will be higher with jlt

 

[Sweetface]

Get the Steeda closed air box.. trust me iats will be higher with jlt

Get the Steeda closed air box.. trust me iats will be higher with jlt

It does get warm down here but haven't had any issues , I only bought the JLT because I found a cheap low miles used one when I ordered my longtubes .

 

[Flyhalf]

Do the same test with the hood closed. The open air jlt is getting atmosphere air. When the closed stock box isn’t. It’s just not a proper test. Dyno them both with the hood closed. You’ll dis prove your findings

I did that too.
But here my 2 cents.
Comparing to my video here, i found why HOOD UP is the right way to do the dyno test.

Is all about heatsoaking.

You are trying to simulate energies to reach 155mph WITHOUT RECEIVING 155MPH air flow.
so the loss in power is only coming from that. Heat soaking because not 155mph "wind"
Enfact my car has huge vents above the JLT so it is NOT related to atmosphere air.
Hope this help

 

[19BULLITTwhipple]

I did that too.
But here my 2 cents.
Comparing to my video here, i found why HOOD UP is the right way to do the dyno test.

Is all about heatsoaking.

You are trying to simulate energies to reach 155mph WITHOUT RECEIVING 155MPH air flow.
so the loss in power is only coming from that. Heat soaking because not 155mph "wind"
Enfact my car has huge vents above the JLT so it is NOT related to atmosphere air.
Hope this help

You just proved my point. With the hood up the car saw 12 more horsepower than it did with a closed hood.
You don’t drive with the hood open. Therefore the jlt is able to suck on more air with the hood open.

its not heat soak it’s because there’s more atmosphere air to breathe.

I’ll put a video here for you man.

 

[PaddyPrix]

You just proved my point. With the hood up the car saw 12 more horsepower than it did with a closed hood.
You don’t drive with the hood open. Therefore the jlt is able to suck on more air with the hood open.

its not heat soak it’s because there’s more atmosphere air to breathe.
[/MEDIA]

Not that Ale really needs defending, but I think we're all seeing it the wrong way. It's not that hood up makes more power, but moreso that having the hood closed makes much less. Everybody only looking at numbers in an additive state are what's allowed K&N filter marketing to sell, as they take a full-out drag car and swap in some stock filter/intake which duh, restricts the hell out of it, and as engines are just air and gas pumps, if you can't put as much air in, you can't put in as much gas, and thus can't output as much power, similar to washing your car and stepping or crimping the hose. So does a K&N air filter make that much more power? ... No, not really, you're just not crippling the big engine's demand for air intake as badly as it was before. It'd be fun to dyno the cars at speed, but we're kinda stuck here, trying to be as objective as we can to rate performance.

As with anything, there's always cheaters, and people who stand to financially benefit from cheating. So, back to my original idea/point, is American Muscle cheating? Hard to say, but I'm having a hard time coming up with their numbers, and comparing their dyno against mine, they are almost exactly +25rwhp on just about every data point between our dyno sheets, but almost spot on with our torque numbers and the curve, yet they're on 93 and I'm on e85 that has reliably tested at 87-88% for the past year straight.

I guess another big point is that I'm still using the stock air intake, box, and even the snorkel to the front grille, which on a dyno might be restrictive, but as we're usually in the triple digits more often than not, it helps me isolate the colder incoming air charge from the hotter air swirling about in the engine bay. I guess when I get mine running again, I'll try to do a before-after test on that as well... I mean, who knows, perhaps I'm the one in the wrong.

 

[Flyhalf]

You just proved my point. With the hood up the car saw 12 more horsepower than it did with a closed hood.
You don’t drive with the hood open. Therefore the jlt is able to suck on more air with the hood open.

its not heat soak it’s because there’s more atmosphere air to breathe.

I’ll put a video here for you man.

I'm sorry but it is wrong.
As you see from this picture my hood is completely open. The left vent is above the filter.
So the "breath more air is not the right reason (otherwise would have been the same result. ")

The reason is heatsoaking.
It is very imtiutive.
To move the engine you need energy.(chemical)
Partial is transformed in kinetic energy( piston up and down) but most is thermal.
To go 155mph (7th gear on dyno) ypu require lots of energy without the chamce to dissipate the thermal byproduct. The heat is soaked and that is why you see less power.
It took me a little too to understand.
Patrick is absolutely right.
Hood up doesn't give you more power.
Is the hood down which is underpowered. Unless...you have gigantic turbines simulating the amout of fresh air you receive at 155mph

Ps. The JLT runs 2deg above ambient.

 

[19BULLITTwhipple]

I'm sorry but it is wrong.
As you see from this picture my hood is completely open. The left vent is above the filter.
So the "breath more air is not the right reason (otherwise would have been the same result. ")

The reason is heatsoaking.
It is very imtiutive.
To move the engine you need energy.(chemical)
Partial is transformed in kinetic energy( piston up and down) but most is thermal.
To go 155mph (7th gear on dyno) ypu require lots of energy without the chamce to dissipate the thermal byproduct. The heat is soaked and that is why you see less power.
It took me a little too to understand.
Patrick is absolutely right.
Hood up doesn't give you more power.
Is the hood down which is underpowered. Unless...you have gigantic turbines simulating the amout of fresh air you receive at 155mph

Ps. The JLT runs 2deg above ambient.

The fact that you can dyno the steeda closed air box and the jlt intake both with the hood open and the jlt makes more should tell you it is not a heat soak issue. There is more air sucking in from the "open air box" especially when the hood is open. This has been disproved many times. The Jlt intakes will not net you the 20 hp advertised when driving on the street.

The whole heat soak thing you came up with is irrelevant on N/A cars.. This isnt a tvs blower where you'll be down on power.

Please find me an article on N/A dyno heat soaking.. The whole cold air intake thing is a gimmick if you don't have a CJ or some max effort N/A build.

Since you have a ported hood lol, upgraded radiator and heat exchanger with the big fan blowing in front of the car. I think you can throw out the heat soak from kinetic energy. You are getting more than enough flow to prevent heat soak.

Both are aftermarket intakes, the steeda is a "closed air box" hence less dyno power.

If you dyno them both with a closed hood and you make nearly the same or less power with the jlt, then you know you wasted 350 on a product that was well marketed. This is not headers, which actually net 15-20 hp.. its an intake. Very different. You are going to flow an extra 20 hp of air from an aftermarket intake better than the ford engineered stock air box.

 

[Flyhalf]

We have different vision. it's all good
My filter has the full opening so i know it gets full air.
So can't be more air.
But i know alejandro thinks different.
Although all the major racing organizations require hood up for dyno.

The fan in front is strong. For sure. But not like a wall of air coming at 155mph to the WHOLE CAR.

Anyway. Tomorrow i dyno with headers. Will report. Up and down
Alessandro

 

[deanm11]

Here are my results from today on my 2020 "FBO" Pump "E85" (tests at E72)

Red is Borla S-type only from February.
Light blue is baseline on dyno today.

Dark blue is my final tune, more or less until about 5000rpm. (I didn't get all the A-B results in one final tune)
Gold is final tune, more or less, 5000rpm +

I thought 490ish was best I could hope for. I am through cats and a Magnaflow center muffler/resonator.

I dynoed on 275-40-17 Nitto drag radials, may be a few hp there.

Before we did anything, the shop owner who I've worked with more than 20yrs ago on Fox bodies, says that he runs 10-15hp low to other dynojets, he believes, based on his unit having a much heavier roller for a lot of high hp cars he works with.

The main thing I wanted was a good picture of the 7000+ rpm power and to see if my tune had anything on the table. There was just a couple hp in more timing and around 10hp in intake cam tuning, from my street tune base.. it put me much closer to stock.

I'm willing to share tunes, logs and dyno files.

 

[Flyhalf]

I dyno too today.
So few notes. Dyno are all different. We know that. What i didn't know is dynojet released a software update (or just a different ome) that interpretates data different.
Here the 2 different dyno.
Mce is the one without headers.
While the other one is this A.M.
The guy told me there is a 3% discrepancy btw software.
3% =15whp for us.
Also the noise was huge. (It spiked to 9500rpm lol)

Assuming my engine is healthy (i droped the car at ford for compression test and cylinders inspection..i will report)
If we add 15whp to the 483 we get very close to 500.
The MCE was done also with hood down
So with same dynojet discrepancy is huge.
I don't really care of max numbers.
For me are important cause my racing is regulated by POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO.
So if i have an dyno reading 20whp less and I get a control in ome where the readimg is higher... Well i get disqualified.

A note.
MCE was outdoor.
THIS ONE INDOOR.
Also i tested with hood down. And made 15whp less. Reason? As i mentioned the intake temps went from 83f to 105f (see the pic). So for me once again the less HP is related to heat soaking and pulling time.

I submitted my data logs to my tuner.
Will also report what he says.

Alex

 

[GregO]

The guy told me there is a 3% discrepancy btw software.

Maybe I’m looking at this incorrectly but is that;
+/- 3.0% = a total delta of 6%
OR
+/- 1.5% = a total delta of 3%
Typically % discrepancy are +/- %

 

[Flyhalf]

Maybe I’m looking at this incorrectly but is that;
+/- 3.0% = a total delta of 6%
OR
+/- 1.5% = a total delta of 3%
Typically the % discrepancy is +/- %

3% less.
He showed me this miata example of dyno same day at sonoma. One with NASA directly (mce) and then theirs (in the shops area at sonoma too)
150hp vs 155hp reading.

 

[larr12]

3% less.
He showed me this miata example of dyno same day at sonoma. One with NASA directly (mce) and then theirs (in the shops area at sonoma too)
150hp vs 155hp reading.

I didnt catch your mods. Headers, CAI, exhaust and tune?

 

[Flyhalf]

I didnt catch your mods. Headers, CAI, exhaust and tune?

Yep amd e85

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