[Locked due to politics] Student debt cancelation. Seems there are strong opinions against it from some.

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OK so first off I don't think everyone is a bunch of a holes I just like to start topics :) get peoples attention.

But There are a few responses I don't understand. The military ones and the grant ones (oh no go get offended now lol) Whats the difference if I work at home depot and the government pays off my loans with tax dollars ( on no everyone's offended and its not right ). or I go to work at the military and the government hands me a free tax dollar paid education? (now everyone's happy and its ok) what is the difference? I go to a job everyday and try and in return the government gives me a free tax paid education. they are exactly the same so why is one ok and the other pisses people off?

Same with grants and scholarships , grants are all mostly backed by tax money or funds that inevitably come from tax breaks. Scholarships get wrote of on taxes as losses.....

so whats the difference if the government pays your loan off or by other means hands it to you from tax money. its all the same thing.

and again i know ill offend but seriously people who say well i did it i paid my loans with gi bills and grants and scholerships.... UM you didint pay anything the government did, tax payers did and other people did. so how can you be upset now if the government want sot help others ? you had the same help.





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College is expensive because anyone can get a loan to pay for it, and they don't think, or don't care about the real cost.

Just like how the price of real estate skyrocketed during the years before the Great Recession due to easy to get loans that no one thought about how to pay back. Remember interest-only loans?

Just like heath care has gotten so expensive because no one thinks about the real cost since insurance pays for it. When asked even the medical staff, or the billing clerk has no idea what a simple procedure will cost. I like to know beforehand since I have a high deductable HSA and have to pay the bill.

Recently I asked a Kroger pharmacist how much they charge to administer the shingles vaccine, or the flu shot that they advertise, and she had no clue. WTF?
 

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Do you know how loans work? Don't want to pay off loans, don't get loans.

Too stupid to look at your loan paperwork/requirements before singing it, maybe you're too stupid to go to collage. Hint when someone offers to extend/refinance your loan, they do that to make money, because longer term loan = more interest (profit for them) you have to pay.

Or lets make people who worked their way through collage (or served in the military for the GI Bill to fund collage) pay for the education of people who took out loans and partied. I know who I think is the a-hole in that scenario.

Let make all the people who have paid off their Mustang pay for the loans of everyone else. That will teach them to be fiscally responsible.
 

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The military also NEEDS to stop dumping money into failed projects. All the funding that has gone to the dog-ass F35 could have just bought new F22's and A10's. They tried to shoehorn a single airframe into every role imaginable, and wound up with a plane that doesn't do anything well, including fly.
There is a lot of politics involved in that airframe, which doesn't work well with performance. I think we could start with stopping money for grants to figure out such stupid things as why gophers have sex and how many genders there are before we start hacking at the military budget.
 

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So I'm a Navy Veteran, and in Texas, which means I have both the GI Bill and Hazelwood act which means I can push through to a masters hopefully debt free outside of maybe paying for books or tools of school.

I don't wish these things upon anyone. I hope someday, and hopefully it stays available, that if I have kids, they join the military like I did. And are able to avoid the crushing amounts of debt. I've got friends and family in debt, some more than others and don't wish it upon on anyone.
 

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There is a lot of politics involved in that airframe, which doesn't work well with performance. I think we could start with stopping money for grants to figure out such stupid things as why gophers have sex and how many genders there are before we start hacking at the military budget.
The government still needs to stop throwing good money after bad across the board. NASA has the same thing with the SLS system. I can also tell you the exact number of genders, but it'll take 15 million dollars of grant money for me to spill the beans :cwl: (hint it's a number greater than one).
 

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So I'm a Navy Veteran, and in Texas, which means I have both the GI Bill and Hazelwood act which means I can push through to a masters hopefully debt free outside of maybe paying for books or tools of school.

I don't wish these things upon anyone. I hope someday, and hopefully it stays available, that if I have kids, they join the military like I did. And are able to avoid the crushing amounts of debt. I've got friends and family in debt, some more than others and don't wish it upon on anyone.
Or, go to trade school.
 

thebaldlatino5.0

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Or, go to trade school.
Good idea as well. I may look into it after I graduate from this community college. My stepfather suggests it. My brother is a masters in business, my dad is masters in aeronautical science. I'm neither as I like chicken tenders and conspiracy theories.
 

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OK so first off I don't think everyone is a bunch of a holes I just like to start topics :) get peoples attention.

But There are a few responses I don't understand. The military ones and the grant ones (oh no go get offended now lol) Whats the difference if I work at home depot and the government pays off my loans with tax dollars ( on no everyone's offended and its not right ). or I go to work at the military and the government hands me a free tax dollar paid education? (now everyone's happy and its ok) what is the difference? I go to a job everyday and try and in return the government gives me a free tax paid education. they are exactly the same so why is one ok and the other pisses people off?

Same with grants and scholarships , grants are all mostly backed by tax money or funds that inevitably come from tax breaks. Scholarships get wrote of on taxes as losses.....

so whats the difference if the government pays your loan off or by other means hands it to you from tax money. its all the same thing.

and again i know ill offend but seriously people who say well i did it i paid my loans with gi bills and grants and scholerships.... UM you didint pay anything the government did, tax payers did and other people did. so how can you be upset now if the government want sot help others ? you had the same help.
You are comparing going into the military to working at Home Depot? Are you serious? Do people with ak’s shoot at you every day while working at Home Depot? Never mind..... I guess college doesn’t teach someone the cost or sacrifice of freedom so that same person can go to college or work at Home Depot. If you truly don’t know the difference between the two or don’t believe someone who has served should receive an education afterwards, shame on you. I think you may take for granted our freedoms and it’s a slap in the face to the people that have provided you that.
 
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Briebee72

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Let make all the people who have paid off their Mustang pay for the loans of everyone else. That will teach them to be fiscally responsible.
And how many people are gonna go buy a Mach-e because the government will pay 10k of it then turn around and sell it back after getting the 10k break? its really no different.
 

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But There are a few responses I don't understand. The military ones and the grant ones (oh no go get offended now lol) Whats the difference if I work at home depot and the government pays off my loans with tax dollars ( on no everyone's offended and its not right ). or I go to work at the military and the government hands me a free tax dollar paid education? (now everyone's happy and its ok) what is the difference? I go to a job everyday and try and in return the government gives me a free tax paid education. they are exactly the same so why is one ok and the other pisses people off?
are you actually serious with this question? If so, that's the most ridiculous thing i've read this entire thread (and I just finished reading all 7 pages of it)

I have a 2 degrees (that I earned before the military, paying with my full time job), working on my third, 2 IT Certs, and have been in the military for the past 6 years, so I feel I have a bit of experience with some of these things.

I never thought I would have to explain the difference between working at home depot and being in the military..but here goes.

Differences between a military member and home depot:
1) we are subject to be moved (stationed) anywhere the military wants us, we don't have a choice in that.
2) we deploy to other countries (I myself have done 2 deployments, one of them was over a year long deployment; both in the middle east). We don't see our families, we can likely die, we use non-potable water to bathe in, brush our teeth, etc on most of these deployments. While some places have radiation, or burn pits for bodies that can pollute the air we breathe too.
3) I get paid a FRACTION of my civilian counterparts. Especially for my first few years. for 30-40k a year I was doing a job that my equally as qualified coworkers that were civilians were getting paid 130k+ for. This gets better, or worse depending on what career you are.
4) We follow regular laws everyone else does, as well as the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice), and realistically can be punished twice as hard for the same offense. Not to mention the risk of having my life ruined for the same offense and being dishonorably discharged.
5) We have to deal with a lot of rank structure and silly rules simply due to the history and customs we have.

That's just a few differences between military and home depot. I think getting help with college (it pays for 1 degree, no matter if you choose a bachelors, or masters, one and done. that you can use on yourself, or a family member) is pretty fair and yes, is a nice incentive.

Hell, at least you live in a country where it is optional to join the military. Go to Russia where they have mandatory military service at 18. That or go to the middle east, where I have personally helped clothe people with masters or doctorates degrees running from a Tyrannical government that cant even afford to feed or clothe their families, let alone a roof over their heads.

This is what I signed up for, which is awesome. I love what I do, and don't expect anything from it. But comparing giving us education (less than 1% of the population) to giving every worker at home depot or anywhere else education, is a silly and very ignorant comparison in my opinion. Almost insulting to those that gave their lives for people to question it.

Yes, the education system sucks and is way too expensive. I've been there. If you want a free education, go to Germany or something (I believe they will pay for your education if you learn the language) or somewhere else. The education system as a whole should be fixed, but your DEBTS for your bad decisions shouldn't just be wiped away because you don't think its fair. If you would have done any research, you would have known it wasn't a good decision instead of just listening to whatever the colleges told you. You complain about the rad tech thing not being able to find a job? Yes, that sucks, but common sense couldn't tell you that with hospitals only having a few rad tech positions, and 21 people graduating a year from your school, that there MIGHT not be some availability? Come on. That's like me expecting to get promoted when there are (for example) 1,000 slots available for that rank in my career field, but there are 20,000 people competing for that slot. A little bit of taking care of yourself and preparing yourself goes a long way, not expecting other people to do it for you or just believing every word they say. Before the military I worked in a physical therapy clinic and had an associates degree for that, finding a job was competitive; but I found one because I worked harder than my peers trying to find one, I was willing to make sacrifices, volunteer at places temporarily for a chance to have my foot in the door; etc etc.

Asking to have these debts just paid off is silly and IMO geared towards the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality that the country has been moving to. The whole system needs reworked, yes..i agree on that. But asking other people to pay more for taxes for other peoples bad financial decisions is silly. People that know more than these things than either of us make these decisions yet we all seem to think we know better than they do without knowing the full story.

Yes, people that have their degrees have debt (more than they should probably) but..
A) They understood that when they initially signed up
B) They have a much greater earning potential and DO earn more. Once the debt is paid off that doesn't go away.
C) They (if they made the right decision) get to work in a career they truly love and enjoy. Which is worth a lot more than money to most people.
D) They have additional job security vs people without that same degree. I'm sure that was evidenced even more from this pandemic. People with higher education (the people we are speaking about) had a better chance of keeping their job vs people that didn't have one.
There are more additional pros to it than these listed, but for rants sake..i'll cut this part off.

As far as the 80$ billion dollar budget increase for defense that someone else brought up..yes. We need it. YES, there is a lot of "waste" with some projects, but there are a lot of points into this that I won't even go into. So ill just go into a few short, but simple points.

A) we just opened a new branch, the space force, which IS needed. There is a needed focus on the space frontier that cannot be done with it as a part of another branch; it needs its own budget, and focus thus warranting the branch. Again, people that know more about it, and do this for a living, made this decision. I questioned it when it first started as well, and talked to the correct people to get more insight as to why it was even needed.
B) The combined budget was brought up vs other countries. Namely China and Russia as they are two of the biggest ones. Who also happen to be allies with each other. Who also could potentially lead to something worse vs the US. Would you prefer we be BEHIND them if that time comes? If so, education is the least of our worries.
C) we are already undermanned due to many budget cuts we had. We deal with this often and oftentimes have people working the job of 2 or more (commonly more) people. Deployments are more frequent; etc.

Sorry for the rant. And I am by no means speaking for all of the military or anyone else, this is just my opinion. But sometimes you have to actually look a little deeper into the why before just spewing things out.
 
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You are comparing going into the military to working at Home Depot? Are you serious? Do people with ak’s shoot at you every day while working at Home Depot? Never mind..... I guess college doesn’t teach someone the cost or sacrifice of freedom so that same person can go to college or work at Home Depot. If you truly don’t know the difference between the two or don’t believe someone who has served should receive an education afterwards, shame on you. I think you may take for granted our freedoms and it’s a slap in the face to the people that have provided you that.
Dude my daughter is in the air force , My family has served. I was making a point. But in that regaurd the military is not what is was 10 or 30 years ago. now you go in and you sit behind a desk or change oil in trucks. A flippin clerk at a convince store is more in harms way. MY daughter will tell you the same thing. My point was a jobs a job and gi bills and military get handed college from tax dollars so why are they against others getting the same help if they are out busting their ass?

Now with that said, if you are in the military and you are deployed into war zones and into dangerous life threatening situations. yes by all means I fully support that and they should all be heros. but if you join the military just to sit behind a desk and enjoy saying well im in the military yeah... home depot is no different.

I mean if you are gonna give out free money for school based on life expectance of the job there are 100s of jobs way more dangerous then the military.

Again Im not trying to disrespect anyone im just speaking facts here. My daughter and her husband are both in airforce. She sits a t a desk all day and he brags about how he sits around for 6 hours wathing netflix while waiting on tires for trucks. while I am proud of both for serving and I am glad they get their stuff paid for why should they be given free rides from tax dollars while a guy who works himself into a hole supporting 3 kids a wife a house and working two jobs not be given help?

I will say again though if you join and go to where you are shot at all day yes by all means give those people a house and healthcare and education for life they deserve it.
 
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are you actually serious with this question? If so, that's the most ridiculous thing i've read this entire thread (and I just finished reading all 7 pages of it)

I have a 2 degrees (that I earned before the military, paying with my full time job), working on my third, 2 IT Certs, and have been in the military for the past 6 years, so I feel I have a bit of experience with some of these things.

I never thought I would have to explain the difference between working at home depot and being in the military..but here goes.

Differences between a military member and home depot:
1) we are subject to be moved (stationed) anywhere the military wants us, we don't have a choice in that.
2) we deploy to other countries (I myself have done 2 deployments, one of them was over a year long deployment; both in the middle east). We don't see our families, we can likely die, we use non-potable water to bathe in, brush our teeth, etc on most of these deployments. While some places have radiation, or burn pits for bodies that can pollute the air we breathe too.
3) I get paid a FRACTION of my civilian counterparts. Especially for my first few years. for 30-40k a year I was doing a job that my equally as qualified coworkers that were civilians were getting paid 130k+ for. This gets better, or worse depending on what career you are.
4) We follow regular laws everyone else does, as well as the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice), and realistically can be punished twice as hard for the same offense. Not to mention the risk of having my life ruined for the same offense and being dishonorably discharged.
5) We have to deal with a lot of rank structure and silly rules simply due to the history and customs we have.

That's just a few differences between military and home depot. I think getting help with college (it pays for 1 degree, no matter if you choose a bachelors, or masters, one and done. that you can use on yourself, or a family member) is pretty fair and yes, is a nice incentive.

Hell, at least you live in a country where it is optional to join the military. Go to Russia where they have mandatory military service at 18. That or go to the middle east, where I have personally helped clothe people with masters or doctorates degrees running from a Tyrannical government that cant even afford to feed or clothe their families, let alone a roof over their heads.

This is what I signed up for, which is awesome. I love what I do, and don't expect anything from it. But comparing giving us education (less than 1% of the population) to giving every worker at home depot or anywhere else education, is a silly and very ignorant comparison in my opinion. Almost insulting to those that gave their lives for people to question it.

Yes, the education system sucks and is way too expensive. I've been there. If you want a free education, go to Germany or something (I believe they will pay for your education if you learn the language) or somewhere else. The education system as a whole should be fixed, but your DEBTS for your bad decisions shouldn't just be wiped away because you don't think its fair. If you would have done any research, you would have known it wasn't a good decision instead of just listening to whatever the colleges told you. You complain about the rad tech thing not being able to find a job? Yes, that sucks, but common sense couldn't tell you that with hospitals only having a few rad tech positions, and 21 people graduating a year from your school, that there MIGHT not be some availability? Come on. That's like me expecting to get promoted when there are (for example) 1,000 slots available for that rank in my career field, but there are 20,000 people competing for that slot. A little bit of taking care of yourself and preparing yourself goes a long way, not expecting other people to do it for you or just believing every word they say. Before the military I worked in a physical therapy clinic and had an associates degree for that, finding a job was competitive; but I found one because I worked harder than my peers trying to find one, I was willing to make sacrifices, volunteer at places temporarily for a chance to have my foot in the door; etc etc.

Asking to have these debts just paid off is silly and IMO geared towards the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality that the country has been moving to. The whole system needs reworked, yes..i agree on that. But asking other people to pay more for taxes for other peoples bad financial decisions is silly. People that know more than these things than either of us make these decisions yet we all seem to think we know better than they do without knowing the full story.

Yes, people that have their degrees have debt (more than they should probably) but..
A) They understood that when they initially signed up
B) They have a much greater earning potential and DO earn more. Once the debt is paid off that doesn't go away.
C) They (if they made the right decision) get to work in a career they truly love and enjoy. Which is worth a lot more than money to most people.
D) They have additional job security vs people without that same degree. I'm sure that was evidenced even more from this pandemic. People with higher education (the people we are speaking about) had a better chance of keeping their job vs people that didn't have one.
There are more additional pros to it than these listed, but for rants sake..i'll cut this part off.

As far as the 80$ billion dollar budget increase for defense that someone else brought up..yes. We need it. YES, there is a lot of waste with some projects, but there are a lot of points into this that I won't even go into. So ill just go into a few short, but simple points.

A) we just opened a new branch, the space force, which IS needed. There is a needed focus on the space frontier that cannot be done with it as a part of another branch; it needs its own budget, and focus thus warranting the branch. Again, people that know more about it, and do this for a living, made this decision. I questioned it when it first started as well, and talked to the correct people to get more insight as to why it was even needed.
B) The combined budget was brought up vs other countries. Namely China and Russia as they are two of the biggest ones. Who also happen to be allies with each other. Who also could potentially lead to something worse vs the US. Would you prefer we be BEHIND them if that time comes? If so, education is the least of our worries.
C) we are already undermanned due to many budget cuts we had. We deal with this often and oftentimes have people working the job of 2 or more (commonly more) people. Deployments are more frequent; etc.

Sorry for the rant. And I am by no means speaking for all of the military or anyone else, this is just my opinion. But sometimes you have to actually look a little deeper into the why before just spewing things out.
I understand I do. I think i didn't word my point i was making correctly. IM jut saying that some people on here are against people being helped by the government with loans. They respond with fi I can do it so can you " I PAID" for my education with gi bill and grants and schollerships... well no you didnt tax payers did. the same tax payers they are now saying shouldn't help others. they took the tax payer help but are now saying others shouldn't have it. that's my point. wasnt directly a dig at the military
 

Arknsawchuck

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The government still needs to stop throwing good money after bad across the board. NASA has the same thing with the SLS system. I can also tell you the exact number of genders, but it'll take 15 million dollars of grant money for me to spill the beans :cwl: (hint it's a number greater than one).
lol, ya better submit the proper paperwork soon on that grant if you really know the answer to the gender issue, the gov seems very confused...lol. I do agree about gov waste, I've saw it for 3 decades while in the military. I can remember needing one bolt for the aircraft but having to buy 100 of them because they came in bags of 100. Then we had to throw the other 99 away because we couldn't have extra hardware laying around.
 

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I understand I do. I think i didn't word my point i was making correctly. IM jut saying that some people on here are against people being helped by the government with loans. They respond with fi I can do it so can you " I PAID" for my education with gi bill and grants and schollerships... well no you didnt tax payers did. the same tax payers they are now saying shouldn't help others. they took the tax payer help but are now saying others shouldn't have it. that's my point. wasnt directly a dig at the military
I understand and agree with you that it is wrong IF people are saying no to the struggle of it just because they had to go through it; however, after reading through these pages it doesn't seem as though many people feel that way. Sure, some might be worded somewhat like that, but I think the reasons why have been touched on fairly well through this topic.

Yes, it would be nice for everyone to get their education at a reasonable cost; but that is an issue with the system that needs to be fixed. Just getting rid of everyone's debt they signed up for isn't the way to do it. Now if they figured out a way to make it more affordable, and then somehow even it out for everyone that already has the debt or has paid it before, then sure..that makes sense. But I don't see that happening.

As touched many times, the system needs work. Things shouldn't be so crazy expensive. But a little research and common sense will tell you that before you make that choice as well.
 

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