[Locked due to politics] Student debt cancelation. Seems there are strong opinions against it from some.

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sotek2345

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I don't know if these loan options were available in the early 2000's, but I know they were in the later 200's, but now you have loan options that are paid based on your income level. The point being as you said that in your 20's and early 30's your loan repayment cut into your income, but with these kinds of loan repayment options they are capped at a certain percentage of your income so as you earn more money, you pay more of your loan balance down and if you make less money, you have a smaller payment to make so it bases your payment on a small percentage of your yearly income. Also, I have a Masters degree worth of student loan debt tied to my name and there are also loan forgiveness options as well. If you pay your student loan balance dutifully for a certain period of time (20 years from what I have seen is the most common) the rest of your student loan after that time period will be forgiven. Even then, I think there are better options than student loan forgiveness to address the issue at hand such as income share agreements where students agree to pay a certain percentage of their income for a certain number of years. In exchange, the lender pays for their education. If the borrower winds up not able to find a job after graduating then they pay almost nothing, and if they get a job that pays 6 figures after they graduate, the deal will probably be lucrative for the investor. In particularly bad years the loan is paused and it helps the lender (because these low-paying years are replaced with higher-paying ones later) and if a student really hits it big, he might hit the repayment cap ( sometimes 2.5 times the amount of the loan) and be done paying early. Currently, these agreements typically collect 3-15% of the borrowers’ income for 5 to 15 years, though of course, those numbers are malleable to account for different students’ situations.

I am going to presume that before your decision to pursue your masters, your level of student loan debt was manageable, but once you decided to continue on and get a post-graduate degree, your student loans skyrocketed after that. At that point, you were no longer a teenager, probably more along the lines of 21 or 22 years old and you had a more decent idea of what it is you wanted to get out of your life. As I had mentioned earlier 1/4 of the increase in student loan debt has been due to people pursuing post-graduate degrees which is something that most people discuss with their parents or professors or friends and look at this and see if they actually want to do that. These decision-making processes can be addressed through other means that aren't related to student loan forgiveness though. At some point, you have to be able to make a decision as an adult and even at 17 and 18, we make life-impacting decisions outside of our college choices.
Upon getting our undergraduate degrees, both my wife and I had ~$35k each in loans. We both worked in college (me up to ~50 hours/week my senior year) and I lived off campus to help control costs. We both just got talked into private colleges. The income base repayment options weren't available, so what we did to make it through our 20's was to take turns continuing our education to postpone payment on one of our sets of loans (her first then me). This of course gave us more debt and caused interest to accrue on the deferred loans (Interest being the biggest killer - we have 1 loan that we have paid almost $30k on and still owe more than the original balance). We kept costs low for our Masters (state schools, tuition only - no room / board, skip buying as many books as we could) having learned our lesson. My wife also picked up an associates in business when we used community college to keep the deferral going instead of graduate programs.

Once we hit our 30's, our incomes had come up some and we were past most of the daycare costs so we were able to get fully into repayment (~$1200/mo., 1 loan goes up every 2 years, but we will have a couple of the private loans paid off in a few years - right before our oldest goes to college)

Edit: I fully accept the outcome of our decisions and don't expect / want any loan forgiveness for me. I do want those younger than me, who faced even higher costs, and those yet to go to school to have a brighter future. I will gladly pay higher taxes for that.





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Mikthehun1

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You benefit from a school system even if you don't have kids in it. An educated population is a GOOD thing!
The point I was making is that we are taxed to support ALL programs, not just those that directly benefit us. I would like to be able to deny funding to programs I think are useless/get abused, but that will never happen. Same thing with corporations not bearing the tax burden that they should. That's who really should pay for this. The predatory loan companies and all related entities that caused the problem. But again, wishful thinking that those responsible for the mess would be required to clean it up. Case in point: the housing market crash. Caused by sub-prime mortgage gambling by the banks. Banks get bailout money to "keep the lending institutions open". Banks take the money and tighten up lending anyway. Guess who got to foot that bill?
 

MR YUK

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Life is about personal responsibility or the lack there of. If you want something, it doesn't matter what it is, if you sign papers saying that you will pay for it over time, do it. Take responsibility for your actions and decisions. No one is putting a gun to your head forcing you to make these decisions. No one owes you anything. You work hard for what you want, and that still doesn't guarantee that you will get it. Education, Healthcare are not rights guaranteed to anyone. If you want it, do what it takes to get it, but don't expect anyone to help. And take responsibility for your own actions. I also think if you want to help people whether financially or in any other way, you have that right. But don't think that everyone should have to do the same thing just because you think that they should.

And those who have a different opinion than you do are not a-holes. That's another problem with the world today. Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't make them wrong and their opinion doesn't matter.
 
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Mikthehun1

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Ok, first off, the military NEEDS that money. You try going to war with aircraft and equipment that would have antique tags on it if it was a car. Plus they earn it. Let your poor little college kid go to a foreign land and face death and see if they agree when and if they return. Everyone can't afford a new GT500, should we give those out too? Being poor is not an excuse to not go to college if you really want too. Like mentioned earlier, join the military, they will send you. How about trying hard work to get there. Life isn't easy. Some kids are lucky that their parents had the forethought to work hard and plan ahead, doesn't mean they should be punished for that. In a nut shell, it's NOT the governments job to provide for everyone. With all the programs, scholarships and other such things as the military there is not reason anyone can't get an education if they want it...if you want to call what they pump out in college these days an education. Now is money wasted in this country...yes...welfare being the biggest expense of wasted money we have. It is not meant to raise generations of people who are to damn lazy to work. Now I'm up to 4 cents worth.
The military also NEEDS to stop dumping money into failed projects. All the funding that has gone to the dog-ass F35 could have just bought new F22's and A10's. They tried to shoehorn a single airframe into every role imaginable, and wound up with a plane that doesn't do anything well, including fly.
 

Less Weight

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Pardon my French, but F*** that.

To me, everyone should pay off their own debts with no help from government.

A.) It teaches an individual responsibility and B.) It forces them to become savvy enough to actual figure out how they will pay off that debt.

I knew that I could NEVER afford to support myself and go to school simultaneously. So what did I do? I devised a plan of action: Put off going to school for 4 years and worked a shit ton of overtime (used to average close to 80 hours a week). Cut costs anywhere I could and saved every penny that didn't go towards essentials until I had enough to pay for my tuition without incurring any debt.

On top of that, I took my first 2 years at my local community college which saved me an assload of cash

Additionally, I lived off campus so I didn't have to pay the ridiculously high room and board that 4 year institutions charge.

Graduated Summa cum laude with a 4.0 gpa and did it ALL ON MY OWN.
 

tom_sprecher

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Instead of forgiving student loan debt, allow it to be discharged in bankruptcy, like all other debt is except tax liens. That way, if you really want out of the debt, you can do it, but it's going to be painful.

After that, student loans are not allowed to be guaranteed by the US government. This keeps issuers cautious about the who, what, and why they are lending. Also, the loans can not be repackaged and sold off as a CDO.

Soup.
 

Jbraun2828

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Wait, hold the people who caused the mess accountable? You must be new here :crackup:

Same reason I will soon be paying for property taxes to support a public school system that I will never use (my wife and I both have zero interest in having kids). I'd love for taxes to be a la carte, but that's not how it works.
You could sell your house and move? At least you have that choice. With socialism there are no choices
 

Mikthehun1

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Pardon my French, but F*** that.

To me, everyone should pay off their own debts with no help from government.

A.) It teaches an individual responsibility and B.) It forces them to become savvy enough to actual figure out how they will pay off that debt.

I knew that I could NEVER afford to support myself and go to school simultaneously. So what did I do? I devised a plan of action: Put off going to school for 4 years and worked a shit ton of overtime (used to average close to 80 hours a week). Cut costs anywhere I could and saved every penny that didn't go towards essentials until I had enough to pay for my tuition without incurring any debt.

On top of that, I took my first 2 years at my local community college which saved me an assload of cash

Additionally, I lived off campus so I didn't have to pay the ridiculously high room and board that 4 year institutions charge.

Graduated Summa cum laude with a 4.0 gpa and did it ALL ON MY OWN.
Agreed, now let's hold corporations and banks to the same standards.
 

samd1351

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I think our defense budget is pretty important given the state of the world
As for making college free for everybody, all kids are going to do is party for 4 years. Maybe not all, but I bet more than half. They will have no skin in the game and it will be a 4 year party with no consequences. At least when parents pay or students pay they have to feel somewhat obligated to follow through with the massive amount of money spent. Free doesn’t work
I agree that our defense budget is important, but at 732 billion dollars, more than the combined budgets of China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia, France, Germany. UK, Japan, South Korea and Brazil, do we really need to spend that much?

And we paid for our son's education for a number of reasons. First, education is important. Education provides opportunity. He did receive some scholarships, but not a lot (his high school GPA was 3.9 something). The program he was enrolled in is a 5 year masters degree program, one of the top 5 in the nation. It is extremely rigorous. The first two years he spent an average of 70+ hours a week in studio, plus class time, plus study time. I don't see a lot of free time for him to work to pay for his education there, let alone have some spending money for going out for pizza and cokes (I'm sure he didn't drink any beer or go to any parties 😇 ). I know this because every time his mother video called him, he was in studio. I swear, she called three times a week the first year.

And so what if people take an extra year to get through school because they went to some parties and didn't spend all there time studying. After graduation, it's nothing but work for 40 years! It's okay to have a little fun. And before anyone jumps in with the "not on my dime are they going to party" they already do. On your dime. And mine.

From https://www.valuecolleges.com/collegecosts/

Germany is the polar opposite to the United States in terms of costs of higher education. Germany’s higher education system is entirely publicly funded and its 2.4 million students pay absolutely nothing in tuition fees. Tuition fees in Germany were originally abolished in 1971, though they made a brief comeback from 2006 to 2014, where they averaged at €500 ($630 USD). But due to massive unpopularity, they were once again abolished.

Though the United States isn’t alone in its struggle with student loan debt, the level of debt incurred by student borrowers in the U.S. is unmatched by their foreign contemporaries, to the point that the growth rate in student loan debt over the past decade outpaces all other types of consumer debt. Granted, the last few years have shown a slight decrease in the rate of college tuition inflation, but that’s not enough to halt the ever increasing gap of college accessibility plaguing the U.S.

Do I think all student debt should be forgiven, no. Should some of it be forgiven, yes. College is big business and they're out of control. All I'm saying is there has got to be a better way than what we're doing now.
 

GP2017GT

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As a current student who's in debt, I'm honestly against this. Hear me out:

I went to a state school undergrad and I've worked full time through grad school and paid much of my tuition bill out of my own pocket. I've sold prized possessions, depleted my bank accounts, forgone purchasing a home, all to be fiscally responsible and cover my bills. If loan forgiveness went through, I'd effectively be penalized for being financially responsible and not racking up tons of student loan debt.

Furthermore, many of these students chose to go to expensive private schools, racking up as much as $200k in undergrad, with an equal amount added if they went to graduate school. Starting out $200-300k in the hole and getting a job for $60k makes paying off this debt impossible. However, if they'd simply chosen to go to a public school, this debt could be a fraction of what it is.

I'm all for helping people who have actual financial need, but in my head the qualifier should be that they made reasonable financial decisions to begin with.

For the record, I respect if anyone disagrees with me. I just have a hard time being asked to fund other people's poor financial decisions when I've worked hard and been extremely careful with my own money.
The elephant in the room that no one really wants to talk about is that a College education is too expensive. Unreasonably expensive. Why? Focus people for one second and tell me why. Not that you washed dishes and ate shoe leather and Ramen noodles and went to Crenshaw Community College. And you had a paper route and sold lemonade from your yard in winter. I get all of that, why is College so expensive???
 

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The elephant in the room that no one really wants to talk about is that a College education is too expensive. Unreasonably expensive. Why? Focus people for one second and tell me why. Not that you washed dishes and ate shoe leather and Ramen noodles and went to Crenshaw Community College. And you had a paper route and sold lemonade from your yard in winter. I get all of that, why is College so expensive???
Because it's morphed away from education and is now run as a for profit business.
 

Less Weight

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The elephant in the room that no one really wants to talk about is that a College education is too expensive. Unreasonably expensive. Why? Focus people for one second and tell me why. Not that you washed dishes and ate shoe leather and Ramen noodles and went to Crenshaw Community College. And you had a paper route and sold lemonade from your yard in winter. I get all of that, why is College so expensive???
Two words: Sports programs

I was told by one of my professors that the entirety of the political science department (around 800 individuals combined) did not get paid what the football coach got paid in a year. That's 800 combined salaries not equaling 1 salary.
 

GP2017GT

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Life is about personal responsibility or the lack there of. If you want something, it doesn't matter what it is, if you sign papers saying that you will pay for it over time, do it. Take responsibility for your actions and decisions. No one is putting a gun to your head forcing you to make these decisions. No one owes you anything. You work hard for what you want, and that still doesn't guarantee that you will get it. Education, Healthcare are not rights guaranteed to anyone. If you want it, do what it takes to get it, but don't expect anyone to help. And take responsibility for your own actions. I also think if you want to help people whether financially or in any other way, you have that right. But don't think that everyone should have to do the same thing just because you think that they should.

And those who have a different opinion than you do are not a-holes. That's another problem with the world today. Just because someone has a different opinion than you doesn't make them wrong and their opinion doesn't matter.
Spoken from someone who would be a prime target for a predatory lender. Someone who would pay 29 percent for a car loan. Right is right , and wrong is wrong. No we as a country will never agree on everything or anything but to shove your head in the sand and say it is what it is not the answer either. Anybody talking about a solution besides taking up the kiester. What's the solution? I'm waiting to hear that.
 
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The elephant in the room that no one really wants to talk about is that a College education is too expensive. Unreasonably expensive. Why? Focus people for one second and tell me why. Not that you washed dishes and ate shoe leather and Ramen noodles and went to Crenshaw Community College. And you had a paper route and sold lemonade from your yard in winter. I get all of that, why is College so expensive???
This is basically part of what Im bring up. I am not saying that all student loans should be wrote off. IM not saying give away anything. but what I am saying is if the government says hey lets help these people who have suffered and been screwed for so long out let them. An education shouldn't keep you in debt for 30 years. you shouldn't have to eat ramen for 8 years and put second hand shoes on your kids because you tried to better yourself. I kow people who have student debt and and make good money but at end of day people working at the dollar store have more free cash then they do. How is this even right for a person you was trying to make a better life.

What about the people who were dupped into the education anyway with big grand talks of a wonderful life to just come out wih massive debt and no job prospects?

One of the other issues is too many fly by night colleges they are flippin everywhere. giving sub par educations and charging massive amounts. you are left with no recourse cause the government backed it and says well to bad you cant sue or do anything about it.

There are lots of reason other then well I did it they have to as well pay your debts to this argument.

you think student debt is bad wait till cars need 12 year loans, average houses are getting to be 300k plus..... between cars houses and education you need to be making 200k a year and ou arent gonna do that with out the degree.... its viscous cycle. The system is designed to keep you broke and it needs to be fixed. if paying of partial student loans is the first step Im all for it.
 

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