[Locked due to politics] Student debt cancelation. Seems there are strong opinions against it from some.

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Bikeman315

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Yeah and tires and oil and warranty ... I guess I need to find another controversial none political debate to start... How about supercar blondie? The woman who can show you awesome supercars and in 15 mins tell you exactly nothing about them other then they have buttons and headlights.
I see a new thread coming.....................





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VERN

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Now the big question, Would student loan forgiveness be taxable if forgiven? Sen Schumer of NY wants to introduce a bill to make it tax free. A double bonus. It doesn't get any better than this unless you also have rent forgiveness also. I am sorry, some may not agree. I am a older guy and a dyed in the wool conservative. Conservative except for my youthful love for muscle cars.
 

Bull Run

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Here are summary of my thoughts on this topic:

Military spending: While arguments can be made to trim some of the bloat in military budget, military is one of the few responsibilities defined for the Federal government in the Constitution. Paying for student loans is not.

From Article I, Section 8:
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"
" To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; "

Educated public: I wholly agree that well educated public is good for the society and thus, I regularly donate to local schools and vote for increase in funding (as long as the tax hits everyone rather than select few, even on a income scale, as everyone needs to have skin in the game). However, it has to be the right type of education. If the society has an excess of underwater basket weavers, but not enough skilled tradesmen, engineers, doctors, etc., paying for more underwater basket weaving training won't help the society at all. In fact, it'll make the unemployment among underwater basket weavers even worse.

As a real life example, job posting for a low paying records clerk position resulted in almost 20 applicants during the first week of posting, and there were many well qualified applicants. Yet, a job posting for a high paying mid-level network admin only yielded a handful of applicants; only one that did well in the interview turned the job down because he couldn't negate a higher pay (wanted $20K/yr additional) and others didn't even come close in the skillset.

Education Required for Jobs: I can make similar arguments with cars. Some people need cars to get to their work but that doesn't mean you need a Ferrari when a used Honda for $10K will do the job.

I grow up in a poor family; my father died of cancer when I was seven and my mother also died while I was in college. I ended up dropping out to take care of during her final months. Because I was even poorer than dirt when my mother passed away, I fully qualified for the Pell Grant and a state-level grant when I went back to college, which was and are still enough to pay for the tuition at local community and state colleges. I still worked part time and took out some loans for my living expenses but paid them back. Yes, there was hardship even with the grants but I learned some valuable lessons. A blank forgiveness robs them from learning their lesson and they will go on to purchase cars or houses they can't afford and repeat the same cycle again.

However, I'd be up for loan forgiveness in exchange for people serving in underserviced and rural communities. Also, the VA will pay for medical in exchange for a number of years of service with them.

Allowing Bankruptcy: I'm for this but only for new loans. This will stop the most from providing large sums of loans to 18 year olds without credit history, but there will be groups that will protesting this saying that this will rob the poor a chance for higher education. Similar argument was made for mortgages and relaxed standards backfired hard in 2008.
 

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Apologies in advance if I come across as a selfish a-hole, but I've got a couple of questions that I would like answered...

Why is student loan debt the only forgivable debt?

For example, I'm 19 years old and I want to start an excavation business instead of going to college. I buy $250,000 worth of equipment (excavator, loader, dump truck, or whatever).....
Why can't my equipment debt be paid for by the government the same as my peer who spent $250,000 on college?
Debt is debt in my mind. Whether that debt is for education or not, makes no difference.

Why would someone take on six-figure debt for a masters degree if they can't get a high paying job to allow them to pay off their debt?
That would be poor decision making in my opinion....

I'm not trying to be a dick about this, I just don't understand the logic behind student debt forgiveness.
If your 19 and you could get a 1/4 of a million-dollar loan by yourself.. nice..I think that's 1% of the population..btw I'm paying for 2 college loans for my sons..had to take a second and a third to do it. but that's what a responsible parent does, yea they are stuck for half for the next 20ty years..and I won't have a retirement, that's fine as long as they succeed!!
 

Bull Run

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If your 19 and you could get a 1/4 of a million-dollar loan by yourself.. nice..I think that's 1% of the population..btw I'm paying for 2 college loans for my sons..had to take a second and a third to do it. but that's what a responsible parent does, yea they are stuck for half for the next 20ty years..and I won't have a retirement, that's fine as long as they succeed!!
If you don't mine me asking, how much did they borrow each? Maximum undergraduate aggregate loan limit for both Federal subsidized and unsubsidized loans is $31K, so anyone who graduates with higher amount than that went out of their way to borrow more.

While I'm not fan of extended loans, $31K on a extended payment schedule is quite manageable, and that's what I did before I got better jobs and paid it off.
 

tazor

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If you don't mine me asking, how much did they borrow each? Maximum undergraduate aggregate loan limit for both Federal subsidized and unsubsidized loans is $31K, so anyone who graduates with higher amount than that went out of their way to borrow more.

While I'm not fan of extended loans, $31K on a extended payment schedule is quite manageable, and that's what I did before I got better jobs and paid it off.
The oldest is in the medical field and the youngest is in the scientific field.. 31k is nothing..also the loans have been refinanced 2 times due to the government doubling up the interest. And let's not forget off campus housing, food, spending money, transportation a lot of costs and they add up
 

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I think the more important question to ask instead about student debt is to ask why tuition has gone up SIXTY FIVE PERCENT in the last 20 years (since 2000). Dig into that and correct it, and the debt forgiveness argument becomes way less important.

But if you want the college debt argument - it's this...
The median wage has gone up considerably less than inflation has. As such people entering the workforce now, make much less they they did years ago. Has little to do with educational costs but a way of "evening-up the score" on the gap between inflation and wages is forgiving student debt to grads.

Does doing that forgiveness for college grads make them an exception ? Yes, absolutely. Someone who went to trade school (or didn't go to school) isn't less important on debt forgiveness than someone who went to college.
Americans should figure out a way to get ALL WAGES brought to meet with inflation... But if you think anyone in power would let that happen - You have another thing coming.
 

lonegunman

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Tuition has spiraled upward because idiots do not pay for school anymore. Since virtually anyone can get hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans for an all but worthless Gender Studies or Social Work degree and go out and find a $25K a year job at the Butthurt Institute of Whiners, they allow these people to borrow all the money they can squander.

One of my friends was dating a woman who had over $250K in student loan debt and spending 9 years aquiring a Master's degree in Art for Pre-Schoolers or some such crap. She worked at a private school teaching finger painting to toddlers for $15 an hour. She said, she would marry him if he took over the debt, hahahahaha. Bigggggg nope.

So schools are taking advanage of the ignorance of their students and exploiting them mercilessly. It is the way of the Democrat to take advantage of the less fortunate and poorly educated people they produce in the modern school system.

Colleges are packed with Socialists, Communists and Democrats who exploit their own students for profit and to enrich themselves.

Let's face it, responsibility it not a strong suit in todays leftist. How can you expect someone who cannot is not intellectually capable of producing ID to vote to pay a bill?
 

sk47

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the more important question to ask instead about student debt is to ask why tuition has gone up SIXTY FIVE PERCENT in the last 20 years (since 2000).
Since virtually anyone can get hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans for an all but worthless Gender Studies or Social Work degree and go out and find a $25K a year job at the Butthurt Institute of Whiners, they allow these people to borrow all the money they can squander.
schools are taking advanage of the ignorance of their students and exploiting them mercilessly.
Hello; The schools get their money up front from the students who can so easily borrow from the government. With the government backing all the loans the "game " is rugged in favor of the schools. Schools are able to not only raise costs but also cater to the whims of the students. If a student does not have the fore sight to get a degree in a field that will pay a decent wage why should the school worry, they already have the money.
That so many of the degrees now wind up with the former student not able to pay back the loans is not the schools problems for now. Their (the schools) money train will continue as long as the "myth" about any college degree being a ticket to a better future and the financial backing from the government loans is so easy. If we all had to go to a regular bank or save up or work and go to school at the same time, then this would never have happened.

I have a few notions as to why the myth continues. Back in the past getting a college degree was indeed the ticket and I figure people sort of wish for that to still be true. Hanging on to something no longer true. I may have been in college somewhere around the earlier days of the change, back in 1965 to 1970. Baby boomer times, which also likely had something to do with the changes. Tuition and expenses were not so outrageous. I did get a small student loan backed by the government and from a local bank.
I went into a pure science field. The contrast between the size of my classes was dramatic. In my science classes and labs the numbers were reasonable. In the classes for some of the other sorts of degrees there could be hundreds. Married my first wife my second year who was an English major. She spent a lot less time in class than I did and had classes about poetry and drama. She even talked me into taking one of the creative writing classes with her as an elective. Interesting enough but also pointless in terms of future value.

Another thing that has happened is the addition of requirements which force people to keep taking classes in order to keep certifications or a license. School teachers and dentists come to mind. The schools have a large population who have to keep coming back in order to keep a job.
 

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The oldest is in the medical field and the youngest is in the scientific field.. 31k is nothing..also the loans have been refinanced 2 times due to the government doubling up the interest. And let's not forget off campus housing, food, spending money, transportation a lot of costs and they add up
That's quite reasonable as type of their education justifies going over the 31K limit.
 

FreePenguin

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I still toot my horn, either pay the debt or suffer the negative consequences. No one forces anyone to go. Any other comments are null.
 

Bull Run

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I think the more important question to ask instead about student debt is to ask why tuition has gone up SIXTY FIVE PERCENT in the last 20 years (since 2000). Dig into that and correct it, and the debt forgiveness argument becomes way less important.
I finished my undergrad back in 2005 and they already starting building "extras" to attract students back then, and it's even worse now. As someone mentioned already, even non-profit state colleges are acting like for-profit schools to attract students.

Also note that while government spending on education went up overall, spending per student went down because there are far more people thinking that they need degrees. I believe those countries offering "free" (put it in quotes because someone ends up paying for it) education has stricter admissions criteria and also offers less frills.

But if you want the college debt argument - it's this...
The median wage has gone up considerably less than inflation has. As such people entering the workforce now, make much less they they did years ago. Has little to do with educational costs but a way of "evening-up the score" on the gap between inflation and wages is forgiving student debt to grads.
Automation and outsourcing. Automation decimated the low-skills job market and it's even threatening white collar jobs (e.g. robo investment advisors). Right now, you have people protesting higher pay for drivers while many major tech and auto companies are testing autonomous vehicles on the road as we speak. Also, COVID should that most white collar jobs can be done remotely.

For example, you don't see postings for phone switchboard operators anymore because you now have switches that can route millions of packets per minute, work 24/7, and do not go on strikes. Even land line techs took a hit as mobile phones became common.

Americans should figure out a way to get ALL WAGES brought to meet with inflation... But if you think anyone in power would let that happen - You have another thing coming.
Problem is that you are trying to fight supply and demand. Any jobs that can be easily automated will go down in demand. Also, it doesn't matter how high you pump up the wages if jobs aren't there. For the same reason I'd advise anyone young from becoming a driver as a career as I foresee those jobs taking a hit sooner than later.
 

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As I said at the beginning of this thread I’m against it, but since I’ve been seeing more and more talk of Biden’s administration going to cancel it all. I told my fiancé to go ahead and rack up as much as she can possibly get. What ever it is someone else will pay it off, thanks briebee for wanting to pick up that tab.
 

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As I said at the beginning of this thread I’m against it, but since I’ve been seeing more and more talk of Biden’s administration going to cancel it all. I told my fiancé to go ahead and
rack up as much as she can possibly get. What ever it is someone else will pay it off, thanks briebee for wanting to pick up that tab.
Now we are talking $2000 stimulus money for everyone, up from $600. This will make the liberals happy at what cost to our children. Why not make it $5000? What does this do for the value of the dollar as the treasury continues to print money like toilet paper? Who said there is no such thing as a free lunch? Agreed that there are unfortunate people who need government assist and we have a responsibility here. The government wants everybody to go out and spend these checks on 70 inch TVs etc. I would like to see people use to pay down debt (like student loans) but that won't happen and would not serve the purpose people are given it for. These checks are given to spend. After all why should the government expect its citizens to control their spending and debt when they cannot do it themselves. Spending is out of control. This country was founded on capitalism and the spirit of the entrepreneur. We are moving closer and closer to Socialism. If the Democrats gain control of Senate I believe spending and national debt will increase greatly and somebody has to pay for the free lunch (don't throw the tomatoes- my expressed opinion only). People and our government have to take more fiscal responsibility. Again,I am not opposed to helping those in need. We have to do a better job of assessing those truly in need. Have you noticed how many Mercedes and new SUVs are in these free food lines?
 
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