List of all bolts that need replacing for 2017 OPG and Tensioner changes (GT 5.0 Gen 2)

[The_Fireball]

EDIT: I've gotten access to the official workshop manual steps. Interestingly it doesn't say to replace the oil pickup to pump bolts at all, but the gasket should be replaced.

The thread can be deleted/archived, thanks

I completed an OPG change this weekend using the Ford Performance billet oil pump gears, and changed all tensioners for their uprated versions. I read into it a great deal first and watched numerous videos, but what is rarely mentioned is the bolts that are use once and need replacing. For example, I now know I need to strip it all down again to take the oil pump to pick-up bolts off and replace them as this is recommended (required?), and anyone that's done this knows these are the worst bolts too! Engine's done 14k miles so still relatively fresh.

I'm now second guessing every bolt, especially those that had 2 stage torqueing like oil pump mounting bolts, crankcase bolts (inc. alternator). Does anyone have insight into the complete list of which need binning and replacing for this job please? It'd be a major load off my mind. So far I have:

• Camshaft phaser VCT inner bolts (12 - 3 per phaser)
• Crankshaft bolt
• Oil pickup to oil pump bolts
• ?

Cheers!

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[bankyf]

I wouldn't' lose sleep over it and I certainly wouldn't tear it back down It is very very rare for the techs at the dealership to replace these bolts. I've had this discussion with the parts guys at my local dealer and they almost NEVER order new bolts for anything. You will most likely find that many of the bolts aren't even readily available for that reason.

 

[brianbr]

As long as you can reach the proper torque the bolt probably isn't overstretched. If you had some bolts that never reached the torque spec, I'd replace those.

 

[The_Fireball]

I've been speaking to a ford tech friend of mine this afternoon. He showed me the Ford Edis system tech guides for replacing the oil pump, and the cam phaser bolts. Taking the Phaser instructions as an example; those instructions don't mention anywhere that you need to bin those bolts, but the "workshop manual" as quoted by the response I got from the Ford Performance tech line, says you do. I've seen some extracts from the workshop manuals that are different to what the techs see in the Edis system too (more detailed a lot of the time).

I mean, if Ford's very own online instructions that their techs in the garage are using don't give them this information, what the hell are you to believe? Why should the Workshop Manuals say differently? Frustrating isn't a good enough word really.

 

[bauern]

I've been speaking to a ford tech friend of mine this afternoon. He showed me the Ford Edis system tech guides for replacing the oil pump, and the cam phaser bolts. Taking the Phaser instructions as an example; those instructions don't mention anywhere that you need to bin those bolts, but the "workshop manual" as quoted by the response I got from the Ford Performance tech line, says you do. I've seen some extracts from the workshop manuals that are different to what the techs see in the Edis system too (more detailed a lot of the time).

I mean, if Ford's very own online instructions that their techs in the garage are using don't give them this information, what the hell are you to believe? Why should the Workshop Manuals say differently? Frustrating isn't a good enough word really.

According to the service manual, the only bolt that needs to be replaced when tearing down the valve train and oil pump is the crank damper bolt.
The FP tech line is not the ones you want service info from.

 

[J17GT]

According to the service manual, the only bolt that needs to be replaced when tearing down the valve train and oil pump is the crank damper bolt.
The FP tech line is not the ones you want service info from.

This. I just had this work done on my car a few months ago. Only bolt we replaced was the crank bolt.

 

[96gt4.6]

I wouldn't' lose sleep over it and I certainly wouldn't tear it back down It is very very rare for the techs at the dealership to replace these bolts. I've had this discussion with the parts guys at my local dealer and they almost NEVER order new bolts for anything. You will most likely find that many of the bolts aren't even readily available for that reason.

Not at this dealer.

Any part that is put on, and the one time use hardware isn't replaced, effectively has no warranty from Ford.

Additionally, if this is done under any type of warranty and Ford pays the bill, and they find out, that dealer is in some serious trouble. I have seen entire claims denied for this very reason when I have ran into things that other dealers had done, but not installed the denoted one time use hardware. Ford makes a pretty big deal about it.

 

[bankyf]

Not at this dealer.

Any part that is put on, and the one time use hardware isn't replaced, effectively has no warranty from Ford.

Additionally, if this is done under any type of warranty and Ford pays the bill, and they find out, that dealer is in some serious trouble. I have seen entire claims denied for this very reason when I have ran into things that other dealers had done, but not installed the denoted one time use hardware. Ford makes a pretty big deal about it.

Eh... It's done pretty regularly at most dealers around here. It should be pretty evident what tickets are submitted to Ford with what hardware. Either Ford is absolutely horrible at reviewing warranty claims or they really aren't that worried about it. In addition, in my experience obtaining hardware, ordering the necessary hardware in many cases would significantly delay the job. While I doubt any of us would be privy to the data regarding single use fastener failure from reuse, I would bet it's extremely low in reference to the OP. With that being said, there are certain critical fasteners that I would never consider reusing and would hope the local dealer techs wouldn't either.

 

[96gt4.6]

Eh... It's done pretty regularly at most dealers around here. It should be pretty evident what tickets are submitted to Ford with what hardware. Either Ford is absolutely horrible at reviewing warranty claims or they really aren't that worried about it. In addition, in my experience obtaining hardware, ordering the necessary hardware in many cases would significantly delay the job. While I doubt any of us would be privy to the data regarding single use fastener failure from reuse, I would bet it's extremely low in reference to the OP. With that being said, there are certain critical fasteners that I would never consider reusing and would hope the local dealer techs wouldn't either.

It's tightening up pretty good on the dealer side over the one time use stuff.....to say the least.

Chargebacks in the thousands over a few bolts gets dealer attention REAL fast.

 

[bankyf]

It's tightening up pretty good on the dealer side over the one time use stuff.....to say the least.

Chargebacks in the thousands over a few bolts gets dealer attention REAL fast.

Out of curiosity...
Most brake caliper and suspension bolts are one time use. Are you saying that every brake rotor replacement in your shop gets new caliper bolts? Are you holding up those jobs over bolts?

 

[luc]

You have to differentiate between bolts that really need to be replaced, torque-to-yield come to mind, and bolts that can be cleaned and locktite reapplied

 

[96gt4.6]

Out of curiosity...
Most brake caliper and suspension bolts are one time use. Are you saying that every brake rotor replacement in your shop gets new caliper bolts? Are you holding up those jobs over bolts?

Correct. They get replaced, Every. Single. Time.

As far as holding up a job, very rare. We keep most SKU's in stock, and bolts take up minimal space shelving wise so it's not that hard to keep nearly everything in inventory, not to mention a lot of models share the same hardware, so it's not as much as one might think.

Bottom line, if the published service manual from Ford denoted it MUST be replaced during service, it goes on that ticket. Period, without exception.

I will admit, from a service and flat rate technician standpoint, it can be difficult at times to keep work flow going over such things, but it's just important that you know exactly what you need before you start the repair. So, for me personally, after diagnosis is finished I know what I need to target for a repair (say, a brake rotor using your example). I then get into the manual, look up the rotor removal procedure, and note all the one time use parts needed, then check parts and availability, and finally forward the estimate for approval.

In the beginning, say 3 or 4 years ago when the nut/bolt/ect issue was just starting to get watched more carefully, absolutely it was a pain and slowed down work a LOT.

Anymore, not the case.

 

[Mghoward74]

EDIT: I've gotten access to the official workshop manual steps. Interestingly it doesn't say to replace the oil pickup to pump bolts at all, but the gasket should be replaced.

The thread can be deleted/archived, thanks

I completed an OPG change this weekend using the Ford Performance billet oil pump gears, and changed all tensioners for their uprated versions. I read into it a great deal first and watched numerous videos, but what is rarely mentioned is the bolts that are use once and need replacing. For example, I now know I need to strip it all down again to take the oil pump to pick-up bolts off and replace them as this is recommended (required?), and anyone that's done this knows these are the worst bolts too! Engine's done 14k miles so still relatively fresh.

I'm now second guessing every bolt, especially those that had 2 stage torqueing like oil pump mounting bolts, crankcase bolts (inc. alternator). Does anyone have insight into the complete list of which need binning and replacing for this job please? It'd be a major load off my mind. So far I have:

• Camshaft phaser VCT inner bolts (12 - 3 per phaser)
• Crankshaft bolt
• Oil pickup to oil pump bolts
• ?

Cheers!

Where did you get this official workshop manual?

 

[luc]

Correct. They get replaced, Every. Single. Time.

As far as holding up a job, very rare. We keep most SKU's in stock, and bolts take up minimal space shelving wise so it's not that hard to keep nearly everything in inventory, not to mention a lot of models share the same hardware, so it's not as much as one might think.

Bottom line, if the published service manual from Ford denoted it MUST be replaced during service, it goes on that ticket. Period, without exception.

I will admit, from a service and flat rate technician standpoint, it can be difficult at times to keep work flow going over such things, but it's just important that you know exactly what you need before you start the repair. So, for me personally, after diagnosis is finished I know what I need to target for a repair (say, a brake rotor using your example). I then get into the manual, look up the rotor removal procedure, and note all the one time use parts needed, then check parts and availability, and finally forward the estimate for approval.

In the beginning, say 3 or 4 years ago when the nut/bolt/ect issue was just starting to get watched more carefully, absolutely it was a pain and slowed down work a LOT.

Anymore, not the case.

Calipers bolts have usually loctite on them and I have always cleaned them and put some blue loctite on them. Never had an issue and I have been racing/tracking for 30 years +
But I do understand, from a liability point of view, that you replace them if you’re a business

 

[96gt4.6]

Calipers bolts have usually loctite on them and I have always cleaned them and put some blue loctite on them. Never had an issue and I have been racing/tracking for 30 years +
But I do understand, from a liability point of view, that you replace them if you’re a business

Exactly, it's a liability issue.

The OEM won't back you up if something unfortunate happens after the vehicle leaves the shop if you did not follow the published procedures provided in the OEM repair manual.

Example: You Loctite instead of replace caliper anchor plate bolts, vehicle leaves shop, bolts come loose and said vehicle has an accident. Customer hires a good lawyer, they look at your repair bill and see there are no caliper bolts billed out on your bill, and they were never put on but the OEM service manual clearly states you must replace them....then the dealer and the technician are exposed to legal action, whereas if the bolts failed due to the manufacturer specifying the improper torque specification or something of the like, the dealer and tech are better off.

Either way, especially when Ford is paying the bill on a Warranty repair, if it says it in the manual, it gets done.

Me personally, same. On m own junk, loctite will suffice and a lot of the one time stuff has been reused in the past if it's something that I feel doesn't require it. Fingers crossed, so far so good on my personal stuff.

Professionally though. Every time without exception.

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