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Letter to FORD addressing ADM?

Tomster

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I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't care what you or anybody does with their own money. I simply noted that the ADMs exists because the market is validated by those who will pay 35 cents for a quarter. Pehaps I should have worded it better in my post. I don't want anybody catching heat because they can pay an ADM. Lots of people in here can pay a modest ADM. Some choose to and some choose not to. In my opinion the "entitlement" argument doesn't apply here. In my opinion the increasing "entitlement" culture want something for nothing at the expense of others. That's not the same as willing to fork over MSRP and not MSRP + $20k ADM.
My bit about entitlement is that commonly some people feel entitled to these new (in high demand) cars at MSRP. You get the "it's not fair" argument, and "I'll never get one if people keep paying a ADM", and "I refuse to pay a ADM because it's wrong".

It is a free market. It is a manufacturers SUGGESTED retail price. Ford set up the business model to have dealerships operate as independent businesses. They own the cars. They can ask what they want for them. People don't have do pay.

I don't like paying market adjustments. It's the way the economy works. It's foolish to think that we (as consumers) are all going to join in protest so that nobody pays a markup and everyone can have an equal chance at the latest and the greatest.

Like I said before. Wait it out. They will make a lot of these 500s and maybe MSRP will not be too far off.
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JR369

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It amazes me how dealers and consumers think the GT350's are special considering they're built on the same assembly line as base model Mustangs and has no ties to Carroll Shelby like previous models. I was talking to a few colleagues at Flat Rock when I was ordering my '18 GT and was told then that one went down the line every 20 minutes. At that time, Ford was building fewer Navigators than GT350's...
Ya. R's are everywhere...
 

JR369

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My bit about entitlement is that commonly some people feel entitled to these new (in high demand) cars at MSRP. You get the "it's not fair" argument, and "I'll never get one if people keep paying a ADM", and "I refuse to pay a ADM because it's wrong".

It is a free market. It is a manufacturers SUGGESTED retail price. Ford set up the business model to have dealerships operate as independent businesses. They own the cars. They can ask what they want for them. People don't have do pay.

I don't like paying market adjustments. It's the way the economy works. It's foolish to think that we (as consumers) are all going to join in protest so that nobody pays a markup and everyone can have an equal chance at the latest and the greatest.

Like I said before. Wait it out. They will make a lot of these 500s and maybe MSRP will not be too far off.
Well, I can't disagree then. I was/am one to avoid ADM at all cost. Instead of whining about it I went and found my deal. There's thrill in the hunt for me. But that kinda patience doesn't play in a society built for instant gratification. I always told my kids, if you want something bad enough, find a way to earn it...honestly.
 

PP0001

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Someone in another thread posted that they just paid $6K+ under sticker for a new '18 GT350R. Some poor saps paid $20K or more over sticker for the same model not two years ago....:crackup:
So your point is that the new norm for any existing new 2018 R's or any upcoming 2019 R models should be sold at ~$6000 under MSRP and anything aside from that is just a rip off?

We all get your disappointment and I personally can understand your frustration with your engine failures but your constant negativity surrounding your unfortunate experiences along with statements such as the above certainly gets to be a little much after many months on this forum.

I hope that at some point you can move forward with your life and hopefully you will be able to experience some very positive automotive excellence in the very near future no matter what brand of vehicle.:thumbsup:

I wish you good luck going forward!

:)
 

Tomster

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Well, I can't disagree then. I was/am one to avoid ADM at all cost. Instead of whining about it I went and found my deal. There's thrill in the hunt for me. But that kinda patience doesn't play in a society built for instant gratification. I always told my kids, if you want something bad enough, find a way to earn it...honestly.
I don't have issue with that. I didn't run right out and just write a check either. I called all around the country and tried to find my best deal. It just so happened that my dealership worked with me because we had and continue to have a strong business relationship.

Believe me when I say, I do not spend money frivolously. Before I write a check or shell out of my pocket, I make sure that I am getting the best possible deal I can. When it comes to a ADM, in all my cases, I wound up getting the best deal at those moments in time. Nobody got an MSRP deal on R's (except a few under very special circumstances). You find your best deal and pay what the market demands..... or don't.
 

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MSRP is one thing (and the Suggested part is the problem), but dealer trying to put $10k-$20k isn't just making a little coin, it's forcing people (those who want to buy) into paying a higher price for no other reason than the dealer is trying to take more money out of your pocket.
Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. This is an essence of free market. If it is too pricey for you - do not buy it.
 

V00D00

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Sure you can. I did. You may not know sticker right now, but base it on MSRP (either plus or minus). Give a deposit and get the agreement in writing. Done.
Im not following. If we dont know msrp, or the packages, allocations and colors, how could a deal ever be made? For the sake of it, so we can use real #s. Im willing to pay $80, plus my states "taxes"/fee's, since I dont have "taxes". So at 80, thats $3500. $835xx.xx all in. Im basing my questimates on 67-69k base price msrp, 8-10k for performance options ( dont want CF option). May or may not be realistic, we dont know, but basing the guestimates of the gt350 msrp predictions,which all the high #s for msrp were wrong, i feel its decently close. Either way, work me through the steps now please.
Ill admit, a lot of these are questions are because I have never ordered/but a brand new vehicle before. I normally wait until the 2nd year to get the bugs out.

It's exactly the decision I made on my GT350. I paid a $5k ADM in the fall of 2015 and I had one of the earlier cars. Very few people had their GT350s yet. Many of the 2015s hadn't even been delivered. I had a line on a non-ADM car, but that opportunity fell through. And I was too lazy/impatient/foolish - whatever you want to call it - to continue waiting and see whether I would get another chance to buy a car. All the dealers near me had long queues of people in line waiting - longer lines than the number of allocations. Some dealers were asking over $20k ADM at that time.

For me, it was worth it. I realized the first few days after I drove the car home that when I bought it I made the right decision.

So I completely agree with and totally support your decision to pay some ADM on your Bullitt. Sometimes the car/timing is worth it.
My thoughts exactly. A deal is a deal when it benefits both parties. Im willing to exchange $ for time, time as in an receiving the car earlier. $5k sounds perfectly reasonable.

A sucker doesn't understand the final sale they agreed too. If a buyer wants a car local, and now and adm is the only way to get it, thats the deal.

A final sale price is a good deal if the buyer feels its a good deal regardless of price paid.
exactly. no one is forcing someone to buy this.
 

Tomster

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Im not following. If we dont know msrp, or the packages, allocations and colors, how could a deal ever be made? For the sake of it, so we can use real #s. Im willing to pay $80, plus my states "taxes"/fee's, since I dont have "taxes". So at 80, thats $3500. $835xx.xx all in. Im basing my questimates on 67-69k base price msrp, 8-10k for performance options ( dont want CF option). May or may not be realistic, we dont know, but basing the guestimates of the gt350 msrp predictions,which all the high #s for msrp were wrong, i feel its decently close. Either way, work me through the steps now please.
Ill admit, a lot of these are questions are because I have never ordered/but a brand new vehicle before.
You are essentially agreeing on price plus or minus referencing MSRP. It's not a formal sales contract, just an agreement over price in reference to MSRP. My agreement is for the race or carbon fiber option with the #1 slot. All the other stuff like color, stripes, cover (all the trivial stuff) are all worked out when the order banks open and the order is placed.

If you want one, try to work out such an agreement and be prepared to call around if you want one sooner than later.

The likelihood is that ADMs on this car shouldn't last long, if they have all the logistics taken care of for the problematic parts (like carbon fiber) then they should be able to crank these out like any other Mustang. What limited R production was the carbon fiber wheels. Carbon Revolutions couldn't make wheels fast enough. We will see.
 

PP0001

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My point is that the R has slid in value since the days where dealers were actually getting egregious ADM's. I've always said that depreciation for LE Mustangs start at MSRP and go down from that price point. ADM's are very rarely supported in the resale market. If they are its short lived while the new product is still white hot, the R is no longer.

There are many reasons for the depreciation which is worth exploring for anyone looking for one of these cars. This is a forum for information of all kinds, not just fan boy "these cars are wonderful and will be worth heaps of money" comments. I'm sorry that my opinion of these cars doesn't allow you to sweep the issues the GT350(R) has under the rug, but questioning my reason for posting doesn't negate the reality of the problems these cars have. You and perhaps many of your friends at Ford may wish for them to vanish, but many will have a car they spent their hard earned money on that will not be supported by Ford when their warranty runs out. Not a good position to be in when the model has become known for high performance with consequent questionable engine longevity. Enthusiasts noticed when Ford stopped racing the FPC 5.2. If they hadn't it may very well have been a PR nightmare, but putting the FPC 5.2 away in the shed was damaging action enough.

And thank you for your well wishes. I experience automotive excellence whenever I'm behind the wheel of my Porsche. Ironically there is a magazine called "Excellence" which is dedicated to the Porsche brand. :beer:

Edit: Another recent comment from the blown engine thread. I wonder how you may respond:

"I’m getting my second motor put in next week. Mine was fine till about 4K miles then the oil consumption increased to a quart every 125 miles. It’s a 2018 model bought in May 2018. I traded in a perfectly fine running 2009 911 C4S for it. So I’ll get the new motor in and then make a decision to keep it or not. There are cases of 2nd motors being bad too, we know that. If Ford would just let us know what the problem is and how they fixed it, I’d be more comfortable with keeping it. I needed a bigger car to get my 85 year old mom around better and more comfortable, so if I dump the 350 I might get a RS5. I considered one before I got the GT350. So yes I’m a Porsche and Audi guy that gave American cars a chance. I’ve had two 911s and an S4 and odd and ends like a 1998 Integra Type R, I hope 313 is still in good hands"
I suggest that you need reread the title of this thread which has nothing to do with blown engines therefore does not deserve a response.

Let's chalk all this up to my mistake with respect to responding to one of your many negative posts after which time you can bet that certainly won't happen again.

:beer:
 

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klumpikat

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id do some searches on here for MSRP gt350 from '16 and '17. Then search thru posts and find the dealers that were named.
Did just that and can confirm dealers who will sell the GT500 without ADM indeed exist :fingerscrossed:
 

obspsd

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6 pages already.
 

Tomster

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I think he's right. This isn't the blown engine thread, nor is it the R depreciation thread.

Randy, you sure have become a pain in the ass. Weren't you part of the reading club way back when?

Anyone seen the ban hammer around? It was around here somewhere.....
 

PTM5.0

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As some have already done, if you want one at MSRP your best bet is to find a dealership willing to sell one for that price. There are dealerships that won't order one for stock because it won't sell in their market. When the orders open up, contact dealers and ask them to ORDER YOU one at MSRP. Have them draw up the paperwork and put the deposit down to lock in the price.

A local former SVT dealership offered to order/sell me one for MSRP back when I was interested in them due to the original twin turbo powertrain. Even though I'm not interested, my wife wants to use it to order herself one. I've ordered all my cars threw this dealership using A-plan so they haven't made any money off me over the years. Just goes to show there are some good dealerships out there.
 

PTM5.0

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For you guys that hate ADM, here's one that'll make your day...

Summer of 2017, I stopped at a dealership to get my oil changed and saw a new yellow 350R on the showroom. I didn't see any ADM added to the window sticker and I figured I wouldn't take too big a hit on depreciation later so I told a salesman I'd take it. He started drawing up the paperwork and the sale price was $128k! Turns out the car was marked up online. Needless to say I didn't buy it. At the time I could get a new Viper ACR for that.
Fast forward to today... the dealership still has it and it's now a 2yr old car.

https://www.billcollinsford.net/new/Ford/2017-Ford-Mustang-f77e01ea0a0e0adf302dd679d5d0f9c9.htm
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