Lemon Law Thread: How many have or are filing Lemon Law for their S550?

[damships]

When I went through my RAV BB vehicle replacement in 3Q 2017/1Q 2018, I went to my local Ford Dealer. The Sales Rep there assisted with a search of what I wanted as the replacement - which was an exact match S550 to my prior 2016. There was nothing on their own lot or locally in a 100 mi radius. He then did a 500, then a 1k radius, nothing at all. Mind you when my RAV BB was approved it was mid-Sept of 2017. Due to my specific RAV Case and the fact that I wanted an exact replacement to my original, Ford authorized a brand new 2018 Special Order build since an exact match in a 2016 or 2017 did not exist in Ford’s new vehicle inventory country wide.

IF a 2017 exact match had existed at the time, I was told both by RAV and the Sales Rep that if the vehicle was located off site from my local Dealership, Ford would arrange transport of that vehicle to my local Dealership (no charge to the consumer).

The replacement Ford must be a new Ford product found either already on a Ford Dealership lot or one that exists in the Ford inventory system.


SIDEBAR NOTES:
For anyone reading, don’t think you’ll be able to request Ford to “build” a replacement vehicle, it does not happen like that at all. My situation and Case was very unique. It was a very lengthy warranty repair experience with many attempts at repair efforts, tons of documentation, involved extensive contact with Ford’s Engineering Team, (2) Ford FSE’s, etc, When the RAV vehicle replacement was approved and there was not an exact replacement to be found, due to the Case history and how things transpired, additional levels of internal approval was needed to get a Special Order Build that resulted in a positive outcome for all parties.

RAV will not assist with you finding your replacement vehicle. You are responsible for picking/finding the replacement and your Ford Dealership Sales Rep is only the middle man between you and RAV. The Sales Rep will help you with inventory searches and such guidance, RAV does not. Once you lock in on a vehicle that you like, the Sales Rep then contacts RAV with that VIN info and getting the process rolling to procure the other vehicle. The Sale Rep’s only other role in the process is inspection of original collateral, inspection of new vehicle, signing of additional docs regarding the RAV transaction and signing of any other normal new car paperwork.

When the day comes to turn over your collateral, make sure you inspect the new car in the daylight (or under dealership’s garage bay lighting) and also test drive it before sitting down to complete paperwork.

Thank you for the information. So I have been in contact with my RAV worker and she finally just received all of my paperwork. For anyone wanting an update on the process they requested the following:

Ford Motor Company will require the following documents:

• A copy of both the vehicle’s current registration, and the front and back of your title (if in your possession)
• A copy of the bill of sale and/or finance contract for your vehicle
• A copy of the driver’s license of all titled owners
• A written payoff statement from your lienholder which includes the following information: A 10 day payoff amount including a daily interest rate (per diem), account number, collateral information, and overnight payoff address
• A payment history from your lienholder, detailing the payment amounts, and the amounts going to principal and interest
• If you are interested in seeing a replacement offer, please let us know the VIN and the location (dealership) of the vehicle you might be interested in. We will need a mock bill of sale and invoice from the Dealer.

So I found a Mustang GT I would love to snag. It's roughly $6K more than my MSRP vehicle, but I am willing to cover the difference. Does my dealership reach out to the other dealership, or am I responsible for reaching out to them myself for a mock bill of sale?

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[Cobra Jet]

Thank you for the information. So I have been in contact with my RAV worker and she finally just received all of my paperwork. For anyone wanting an update on the process they requested the following:

Ford Motor Company will require the following documents:

• A copy of both the vehicle’s current registration, and the front and back of your title (if in your possession)
• A copy of the bill of sale and/or finance contract for your vehicle
• A copy of the driver’s license of all titled owners
• A written payoff statement from your lienholder which includes the following information: A 10 day payoff amount including a daily interest rate (per diem), account number, collateral information, and overnight payoff address
• A payment history from your lienholder, detailing the payment amounts, and the amounts going to principal and interest
• If you are interested in seeing a replacement offer, please let us know the VIN and the location (dealership) of the vehicle you might be interested in. We will need a mock bill of sale and invoice from the Dealer.

So I found a Mustang GT I would love to snag. It's roughly $6K more than my MSRP vehicle, but I am willing to cover the difference. Does my dealership reach out to the other dealership, or am I responsible for reaching out to them myself for a mock bill of sale?

That’s great news, finally some movement for you!

As far as the vehicle you found, let your Sales Rep know by giving him the location and VIN if the vehicle (or if an online ad exists send it to him). He has to reach out to that Ford Dealer and request a transfer to satisfy a RAV request for vehicle replacement. You can also let your RAV Rep know you have found a vehicle and provide the same info just so you’re keeping things up to date.

As far as the mock bill of sale, that is the role of the Sales Rep and RAV Rep - once they have all the info of the vehicle you want, they plug numbers into that mock invoice. The final numbers will be either adjusted before the day you sit down to exchange your collateral for the replacement, or on that very day. The mock up is just to get the replacement MSRP, your original MSRP, loan payoff figure, any deltas and any usage fees applied (if applicable) on paper so they can present to you the approximate figure you would be paying or financing (MSRP examples posted previously). The rest of the figures such as any tax delta due to MSRP delta, any doc fees, etc. will be applied to the invoice later.

It’s pretty much like when you bought your current vehicle as far as the end invoice process goes, only difference is you’ll have additional RAV paperwork to sign.

 

[damships]

That’s great news, finally some movement for you!

As far as the vehicle you found, let your Sales Rep know by giving him the location and VIN if the vehicle (or if an online ad exists send it to him). He has to reach out to that Ford Dealer and request a transfer to satisfy a RAV request for vehicle replacement. You can also let your RAV Rep know you have found a vehicle and provide the same info just so you’re keeping things up to date.

As far as the mock bill of sale, that is the role of the Sales Rep and RAV Rep - once they have all the info of the vehicle you want, they plug numbers into that mock invoice. The final numbers will be either adjusted before the day you sit down to exchange your collateral for the replacement, or on that very day. The mock up is just to get the replacement MSRP, your original MSRP, loan payoff figure, any deltas and any usage fees applied (if applicable) on paper so they can present to you the approximate figure you would be paying or financing (MSRP examples posted previously). The rest of the figures such as any tax delta due to MSRP delta, any doc fees, etc. will be applied to the invoice later.

It’s pretty much like when you bought your current vehicle as far as the end invoice process goes, only difference is you’ll have additional RAV paperwork to sign.

Once again, thanks for the great information. I wish they would walk you through the process and give you the specifics. I’m honestly getting more info from your thread than Ford. So another question, what happens to my GAP policy? Will they just pay that off with the original loan and I put a new one on the new invoice.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Once again, thanks for the great information. I wish they would walk you through the process and give you the specifics. I’m honestly getting more info from your thread than Ford. So another question, what happens to my GAP policy? Will they just pay that off with the original loan and I put a new one on the new invoice.

Hey no problem with the help, a Buy Back is definitely an ‘experience’ and it can be tedious and stressful on the Owner. Definitely hang in and the results will be worth the wait.

Sorry, I don’t have any info about how an additional GAP policy would be handled. If GAP was part of your original financing (added in) when you bought the car, let your RAV Rep know and definitely inquire about how they will handle that piece.

For me, I have GAP on our vehicles through my Auto Insurance, rather than through the Lender. So with my prior 2016 when it was bought back, I did not have to do anything.

*** If you elect to do GAP coverage again on your next new vehicle, inquire with your Auto Ins. Rep. and see if they offer GAP and at what monthly increase to your Ins premium. You may find that it costs a lot less to get it through your Ins. than “financing it” through a Lender. I know for certain it was far less to get it through my Ins. than having it lumped into the loan by a Lender.

 

[damships]

UPDATE: Well, everyone wasn't kidding when they said this was a tedious process. So my Ford Buy-Back Rep informed me she is in the process of sending me the re-fund offer. I reminded her that I was primarily interested in replacement and she acted as if I didn't tell her this before.......So she said I can look over the refund offer when it arrives and refuse it if I wish. She stated we can look into the replacement while the refund numbers are being worked on.

She told me to get the mock bill of sale. I reached out to my old Sales Rep from my original dealership and he began facilitating the process of getting me this Mustang GT I'm interested in 100 miles away in AZ. He then calls me back talking about incentives, deals, how low I want my payment to be (regular sales stuff etc.) and I reminded him this is a Ford Buy-Back, a straight MSRP swap through Ford. After explaining it for 10 minutes he finally understood and got his manager involved. They both had no idea how to handle the process and stated they have never done a replacement.

I got fed up with the process so I just tagged the manager and sales rep on my e-mail thread I had going on with my Ford Buy-Back Rep. They all e-mailed back and forth all day and the dealership finally sent over a mock invoice. They are just waiting to see if the AZ dealership is willing to let go of the vehicle. If they are okay with letting go of the vehicle, then they will send me the replacement offer. If I approve the numbers, I'll drop off my vehicle to surrender, apply for new financing with the new totals and get the new vehicle.

Honestly Cobra, without the information you've provided on this thread, I would be completely lost. So thank you so much for the help you've given thus far. The Ford Rep doesn't really take time to explain the process. The dealership and workers there don't understand how the process works. I honestly recommend anyone else who is going through this to just put them on an e-mail thread together, tell them what you want, and let them work it out. Saves a lot of hassle. I'm willing to give Ford a chance since I do love the Mustang and they are open to replacing/refunding me, but man, this process needs to be explained in a better way.

On the positive flip side, I'm looking at a Twisted Orange GT with the black accent package. It's a few thousand more than my original purchase, but it looks absolutely beautiful. And I'm getting a pretty good price on it. My GT was purchased for $30K, but the MSRP was $39K! New vehicle is $45K. So the $6K difference, plus fees isn't too bad of a swap in my book.

 

[growly2020]

Yes, that seems to be an ongoing issue with Ford RAV regarding the delayed payoff of the returned collateral.

Just a note to anyone doing a Buy Back, whether it’s a total Buy Back Refund OR a Buy Back Vehicle Replacement:
Check and triple check that the returned vehicle’s Loan has been satisfied in full by Ford RAV and your lending institution. Make sure you get an official letter from the Lender stating within the letter that the Vehicle Make, Model, Year and VIN has been completely paid in full and there is no outstanding debt tied to your name or credit.

Thanks! They did get the payoff there about a week after I picked up the new car. I did not think to get a letter from my Lender so I will for sure do that!!

 

[damships]

UPDATE: Unfortunately, my Twisted Orange GT replacement is a no-go. For some reason there was $2,000 work of extra mods on the vehicle, on top of the MSRP. So I found one locally. 2020 GT Red Metallic with PP1. We'll see how this goes.

 

[damships]

UPDATE: Received my offer letter from my Ford Buy Back representative. Numbers looked good. I’m honestly walking out with an incredible deal:

Original MSRP for the lemon was $39.5K and I purchased it for $30K. Replacement is $43.5K. So I’m looking at just tackling on an extra $4K and taxes for a 2020 GT with PP1 and active exhaust. Figures put me back to where I started in August 2019 when I purchased the vehicle, so it’s not earth shattering and I get a new vehicle.

Nevada does not charge for mileage on a replacement so I dodged that bullet (they do charge on refunds though for anyone who’s curious). I signed the offer letter and emailed it to her. She said once it’s processed and she sends the surrender paperwork to the dealership I can schedule a date to surrender the vehicle and sign the deal for the new one. Just two more weeks or so. Almost there!

Hopefully will be done with this in the next 2 weeks or so.

 

[Cobra Jet]

UPDATE: Received my offer letter from my Ford Buy Back representative. Numbers looked good. I’m honestly walking out with an incredible deal:

Original MSRP for the lemon was $39.5K and I purchased it for $30K. Replacement is $43.5K. So I’m looking at just tackling on an extra $4K and taxes for a 2020 GT with PP1 and active exhaust. Figures put me back to where I started in August 2019 when I purchased the vehicle, so it’s not earth shattering and I get a new vehicle.

Nevada does not charge for mileage on a replacement so I dodged that bullet (they do charge on refunds though for anyone who’s curious). I signed the offer letter and emailed it to her. She said once it’s processed and she sends the surrender paperwork to the dealership I can schedule a date to surrender the vehicle and sign the deal for the new one. Just two more weeks or so. Almost there!

Hopefully will be done with this in the next 2 weeks or so.

Awesome news!! IMO, I also agree that a vehicle replacement nets a better return in the end when you really think about it. Since it’s MSRP to MSRP, a person electing that Buy Back option over a refund is actually making out very well in the end... Most don’t look at it in that manner, but honestly, taking the replacement is and can be better - especially avoiding the mileage usage fee (depending on State Lemon Law).

A person who elects that option to go with a vehicle replacement actually now has more equity in that replacement vehicle...and in most instances can put the person ahead of the game from a financial aspect... because they are getting a brand new car for the essentially the amount that was remaining on their initial loan.

Glad the info has helped you along and best of luck with the replacement!!

 

[GMONSTAH]

Excellent thread! Spent significant time reading about it, driven by that 2K rattle Ford says is "normal". I've gone to 3 separate dealerships, and all have said the same thing after a day in the shop. Seems to me that's how Ford is circumventing having to replace vehicles: just label the noise/issue normal. No way that noise is "normal". Unfortunately, I don't meet the GA lemon law criteria. I guess with Ford, unless the noise is so loud that destruction of something or other is imminent, or until something actually breaks, it's "normal". I'm glad I purchased the ESP so I'm covered for a total of 6years/125K miles. Good thing I have no interest is doing any mods either as I have no doubt any mod, no mater how trivial, would be used against me.

 

[damships]

Awesome news!! IMO, I also agree that a vehicle replacement nets a better return in the end when you really think about it. Since it’s MSRP to MSRP, a person electing that Buy Back option over a refund is actually making out very well in the end... Most don’t look at it in that manner, but honestly, taking the replacement is and can be better - especially avoiding the mileage usage fee (depending on State Lemon Law).

A person who elects that option to go with a vehicle replacement actually now has more equity in that replacement vehicle...and in most instances can put the person ahead of the game from a financial aspect... because they are getting a brand new car for the essentially the amount that was remaining on their initial loan.

Glad the info has helped you along and best of luck with the replacement!!

Your help has been super beneficial, Cobra. Much appreciated. Hopefully will update next time with the new vehicle.

 

[damships]

Excellent thread! Spent significant time reading about it, driven by that 2K rattle Ford says is "normal". I've gone to 3 separate dealerships, and all have said the same thing after a day in the shop. Seems to me that's how Ford is circumventing having to replace vehicles: just label the noise/issue normal. No way that noise is "normal". Unfortunately, I don't meet the GA lemon law criteria. I guess with Ford, unless the noise is so loud that destruction of something or other is imminent, or until something actually breaks, it's "normal". I'm glad I purchased the ESP so I'm covered for a total of 6years/125K miles. Good thing I have no interest is doing any mods either as I have no doubt any mod, no mater how trivial, would be used against me.

Definitely good you have that extended coverage. Gives you some piece of mind. Mine had the rattle too, but of course it’s “normal”. I hope nothing negative happens with your vehicle and it continues to function properly.

 

[damships]

UPDATE: Got the numbers from my Ford Rep for the replacement. Went over them thoroughly and they looked good. I signed the form and e-mailed it to her. She stated the closing packet will be sent to the dealership by 6/12/20, which is when I can go to surrender the vehicle.

My last question would be if you guys think it's okay to start the financing on the new vehicle before the surrender date? My Ford Rep actually advised me to get that arranged as soon as I can, even before the surrender date. They stated my current loan will be paid off the day after I surrender the vehicle (they send a check one-day shipping to my lien holder). Any harm with doing it this way considering I have documentation from them encouraging this and also the form I signed states they will pay off the lien after the surrender?

 

[damships]

UPDATE: Well, this is kind of an update as it might help someone in the future. I went to the dealership Monday to do the financing on the vehicle and the dealership had no idea if they should do it before the arrival of the surrender packet arrived. I brought the offer letter and they had no clue to proceed. My RAV Ford Rep was already out of the office on the east coast so we didn't do anything.

I e-mailed her this morning asking her if the dealership and I can proceed with doing the finance paperwork for the new vehicle before the surrender packet arrives. Despite several e-mails from me and even the sales manager at the dealership who is assisting me, she has no idea what we are asking her. She keeps thinking I am asking her about HOW to finance the vehicle and she keeps responding that is not her department and that it is up to the lender. We are simply just asking her if we can move forward with the financing (simple yes or no), but she does not understand. I'm getting the impression we can, but she doesn't get it. Sales manager informed me they will call her today for clarification.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Don’t rely on the vehicle loan being paid off same day; my prior 2016 was not and many who have gone through a RAV BuyBack have reported the same that the actual “paid in full” from RAV is usually delayed.

That does not mean you will be impacted at all as far as financial credit score or delay of completing the vehicle swap. It just means there’s usually a delay between the time the car is surrendered, the paperwork completed at Dealership, when RAV (or your existing lender) processes the payoff and RAV receives the title to the collateral. Make sure that within 5-7 business days that you do call your Lender to confirm the note was paid in full (request a letter from them stating same) and confirm that RAV has received the title.

Yes, you certainly should move forward to line up all of your financing before surrendering the collateral and taking delivery of the replacement. In order to do so, your Salesman who is handling and helping facilitate the transaction needs to create the New Vehicle Invoice. That invoice will show your collateral as if it were a “trade”, any fees (Dealer doc fees, DMV reg/title, misc. State fees (taxes if applicable) will all be broken out on that invoice. The bottom line figure from that invoice is what your Lender (Bank, Credit Union or Ford Credit) will need to run as your new loan amount. Be diligent and also go through the figures on the invoice BEFORE you send it to your lender.

Ford RAV will only let you take the replacement vehicle once you and the Dealership inspect both vehicles (Dealership yours, you the Dealership’s), financing is in place, all monies due are settled at day of swap (ie: applicable if you owe any deltas due to MSRP variances, any penalties, etc) and obviously all the normal new car paperwork and specific RAV paperwork is signed.

Many Dealerships don’t know or understand the RAV process, because some have never processed such a transaction or those that have, it’s a very low number of such transactions that it’s not the “norm” for their sales floor folks. The same is true for RAV, they have a high turnover and some of their folks are not well trained in the process, so there’s confusion or they just don’t know.

On a positive note, sounds like you’re in the home stretch!

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